Braves Journal, The House That Mac Built

Scarred, but smarter.

30 Jul

Teixeira trade finalized, probably

Teixeira trade finalized with Rangers |

I don’t report these things until DOB or Peanut do, but it appears to be all done but the paperwork. (Peanut weighs in here.)

It’s a whole lot. The deal would include Saltalamacchia, Andrus, Matt Harrison, and an unknown prospect, apparently not Dan Smith or Thomas Hanson since it’s said to be a “lesser” prospect. Some reports have it as Neftali Perez, who might be something but is a long way away; he hasn’t even pitched A-ball yet. The Braves also get Ron Mahay in the deal. Mahay replaces Fredo Ledezma, whom we acquired for a perfectly good LOOGY.

Teixeira’s a terrific hitter, and not just a creation of Arlington. It’s a good trade; a year and a third of Teixeira and a chance to sign him long-term is worth prospects whom the Braves don’t really need. The Rangers do nicely too. It’s not really necessary for anyone to win a trade.

I’ll get player analyses up eventually, once it’s official.

438 Responses to “Teixeira trade finalized, probably”

  1. 1
    KLB Says:

    Another report now saying it is Harrison and Hanson or Feliz.

  2. 2
    Andy Says:

    From CNN.SI: “The Braves are not expected to pursue a long-term contract with Teixeira, who is due to become a free agent after the 2008 season.”

    Not at all? I’d think they’d be able to talk assuming Andruw is gone.

  3. 3
    mraver Says:

    Better not be Hanson or I’ll say we really got hosed. ‘Course, I’m not too excited about losing Feliz, either. He’s a pretty exciting prospect. And I kinda thought we were getting hosed before we gave up another prospect.

    Oh well. We should at least have a nice two-year window in which we’ll have to get something done. The offense is really quite dynamic now. Our 8-hole hitter is going to be Matt Diaz or Kelly Johnson now. It’s definitely the best lineup in the NL, and I’m willing to say it’s close to the best in MLB.

  4. 4
    mraver Says:


    My guess is that they’re saying we’re not going to try to get him to sign an extension right now. I imagine Schurholtz at least intends to present an offer at this point, and even if he doesn’t, he certainly wouldn’t rule something 15 months away out.

  5. 5
    Smitty Says:

    Just remember: “Potential is a nice word, results are what count.”

  6. 6
    mraver Says:

    And for the triple post:

    ESPN is reporting that Feliz is going and says the other prospect is TBD. So we’ve got some saying Harrison is going, others saying Feliz is going….

    My guess is it’ll be Feliz + someone rather than Harrison + someone. Which might actually be worse for ATL.

  7. 7
    Trace Says:

    mraver’s right.. our offense is definately one of the top in baseball, maybe a little behind the Tigers and Red Sox..

  8. 8
    Hate King Says:

    Is anyone knowledgeable enough to come up with a top 10 pitching prospects list? I’ve heard Hanson and Smith thrown around, but I had only heard of Jo Jo, Matt Harrison, and recent draft picks as top prospects. Does a current list exist? Not something by baseball america done at the beginning of the season?

  9. 9
    Stu Says:

    You should also remember that 2009 results count, too.

  10. 10
    Ron Says:

    Let’s not try to win ever. Let’s just hold onto every A and AA prospect because there’s a 1 in a million chance they might become All-Stars years from now. Sigh.

    I’m very happy about this trade. I wonder if JS plans anything else now perhaps for a lesser starting pitcher who would nonetheless be better than the black hole that has been the 5th slot in the rotation.

  11. 11
    KLB Says:

    #8 – I think top 5 would include Harrison, Reyes, Hanson, Feliz, and Smith.

  12. 12
    Smitty Says:

    Yeah, in 2009

  13. 13
    Coz Says:

    I still think another trade for a starter is in the works. Surely someone will take Davies and Thorman off our hands.

  14. 14
    Smitty Says:

    The world may end before 2009 anyways.

    I think Mahay’s nickname should be “May Day.”

  15. 15
    Zach Says: has a top 25 prospects list from the beginning of the season. You can just look at the top pitchers on that list. It’s on the left sidebar.

  16. 16
    KLB Says:

    And then 6-10 would probably include some relievers and starters. Maybe Locke, Richmond, Rohrbough, Devine, Medlen?

  17. 17
    RobBroad4th Says:

    I second that, Smitty.

  18. 18
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Here is a link to Gondee’s prospect list over at Talking Chop. You can get a feel for what he thinks. . . . If that helps at all.

  19. 19
    Kyle S Says:

    I like both Feliz and Hanson better than Harrison. At least those guys have some upside. Without Feliz, there are only one or two guys in the entire system who have a 1 or 2 starter upside, which troubles me given Smoltz’s age and balky shoulder.

    I dunno. If we win the WS this year, all will be forgiven, but as it stands we’re still a longshot to make the playoffs, even with Teixeira.

  20. 20
    Stu Says:

    I think Mahay’s nickname should be Ron “We Shouldn’t Have Traded Macay” Mahay.

  21. 21
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Will we make another move in the next 35 hours? Is Silva a better option than Jo Jo Reyes at this point? Could we get him cheap considering his losing record?

  22. 22
    Smitty Says:

    A long shot? We are only a couple of game out of the wild card and the division and we play all the teams a head of us in the East next week.

  23. 23
    Zach Says:

    I think Feliz was a little over-hyped because he approached triple digits on the gun. His secondary stuff needs a lot of work. This is in response to the BA top 100 which basically said he was our 3rd best prospect which is absurd.

  24. 24
    Another Alex R. Says:

    Stu, I hear what you’re saying. It’s worth remembering that the whole reason we can make this trade is the Braves have had a very productive farm system for a very long time. 18 year-olds, even very talented 18 year-olds, are much easier to come by than cleanup hitters.

  25. 25
    Ron Says:

    I’m glad I didn’t have to read some of these comments back in ’93 when JS turned such memorable prospects as Melvin Nieves into Fred McGriff.

  26. 26
    Robert Says:

    #19 is right on the money

  27. 27
    Smitty Says:

    Melvin Nieves is the next Barry Bonds and we gave him up for a guy who can only hit 35 bombs a year and drive in 115. In 1999 Nieves will be passing Aaron on the all time home run list and be wearing his 3rd ring!

  28. 28
    Tony Says:

    Tex over the last 3 years…

    2003: 38/112rbi/.370ob/.560slg/ .281BA
    2004: 43/144 /.379ob/.575 / .301
    2005: 33/110 /.371ob/.514 / .282

    Quit complaining and be thankful we have a legitimate superstar at 1st base.

    Do you know who JS gave up to get Fred McGriff? Melvin Nieves…remember him?

    We can still get a lefty out there…believe me.

  29. 29
    Trace Says:

    So when will JS come out and announce the trade, saying who we really gave up?

  30. 30
    Smitty Says:

    I read the deal will be announced later today!

  31. 31
    KLB Says:

    Also read that the Rangers are having a 3:00 press conference. I would assume that is CST.

  32. 32
    timo Says:

    What are some of you guys thinking? Giving up bums who have no ceiling in order to get a superstar like Tex? Get real.

  33. 33
    sunbelt Says:

    This doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling ……………

    “The Rangers will be able to choose two prospects, and it’s believed they’ll both be pitchers”.

  34. 34
    CHill Says:

    I gotta say: I like this trade. Sure, we gave up a lot but we got a bona-fide SuperStart in return. We definately have a shot(a pretty good one) to win the NL East now and a good shot to go deep in the playoffs. I’m sorry to see some of our great prospects go but as someone said: They are just prospects until thye actually do something.

  35. 35
    Smitty Says:

    I bet we offered Little JS, Paranto, and Woodward

  36. 36
    timo Says:

    #10 Ron, nobody has seid it better than you, buddy!

  37. 37
    Keith the Champ Says:

    I think JS should have just held Jon Daniels upside down in the cafeteria and shook him until Mark Teixiera fell out of his pockets.

  38. 38
    Another Alex R. Says:

    The question now becomes whether Tex will be healthy and able to help us this year.

  39. 39
    timo Says:

    “said” sorry

  40. 40
    ububba Says:

    Just went to my deli on the corner. Owned by a Braves fan, operated by Met fans. Just told them about the Tex deal & they reacted like they just got punched in the gut.

    One guy said: “You guys always come up with something, and we’re supposed to get excited about getting Luis Castillo. Looks like this one’s going to go to the wire.”

    Me: “That’s the idea.”

  41. 41
    JDMaker1 Says:

    I bet Woodward gets sent down and little JS comes up . . . The only chance he has to ever play pro ball is while JS, Sr. is still the GM

  42. 42
    Jimbo B. Says:

    Just read in the Dallas Morning News that the Rangers will likely play Salty at 1B for the remainder of this season. It will be interesting to see how plays there on a consistent basis.

    Whats with CNNSI saying we do not plan to pursue signing Tex to a deal. Why would we rule that out 15 months before the fact?

  43. 43
    JoeyT Says:

    This is a great trade. Tex is a seriously good player and he fills a gaping hole we were plugging with a catcher. And he’s not just a one season rental. We get him for the stretch in a contending year AND another year.

    For what? A catcher blocked by an extremely young two time all star and a shortstop behind Escobar in the organization. These are blocked prospects that we had to trade eventually, and JS was able to get a truely awesome hitter with them. This is fantastic.

  44. 44
    braves14 Says:

    Fun New top 10 prospect list?

    1. Tommy Hanson
    2. Brandon Jones
    3. Kala Kaaihue
    4. Joey Devine
    5. Jamie Richmond
    6. Dan Smith
    7. Cody Johnson
    8. Cole Rahrbaugh
    9. Eric Campbell
    10. Will Startup

  45. 45
    Rip Says:

    Who is the odd man out? Which one of these guys would get dropped to account for roster space if needed?

    Thorman, Woodward or Julio? Woodward can play LF if ever needed, right?

  46. 46
    JoeyT Says:

    I seriously haven’t been this happy about an acquisition since Hudson.

  47. 47
    Nick Says:

    Well, I think you all know my position on this trade. And that we got back a reliever too makes it even better. This trade should make us a playoff team. Once again, the people who say it’s a long shot forget about the existence of the wild card, but we may be the best team in the NL East already with this trade. Trade for a starting pitcher and we may be the best team in the National League. If you wanna give that up on the off-chance that we’ll be good in 2009, I suggest you become a Pirates fan or something. This is a huge, huge deal.

  48. 48
    clarke Says:

    Does every trade the Braves do have to be titled by ESPN as “Brave New World”

    Grow up ESPN- oh wait forgot you still let Stuart Scott say Booyah and Chris Berman say anything.

  49. 49
    Moogination Says:

    @48 – Just like everytime there is Cardinals news, it is “In the Cards”

  50. 50
    Jimbo B. Says:

    I still say the Braves keep Thorman. He’s had less than a full season at the big league level and he will not clear waivers. Having 2 1B on the bench may not make the most sense but if they decide Woodward over Thor they will lose him.

  51. 51
    bfan Says:

    We just need to offer teix arbitration for 2009-that would get us 2 sandwich picks, correct?

  52. 52
    Ethan Says:

    Thorman has most upside

    Woodward is most versatile

    Julio adds most to clubhouse.

    I think the clubhouse is least valuable/overated. Plus, it’s not like we’re really lacking in there. I’d dump Julio, but it’ll probably be Thorman.

  53. 53
    Icebox 44 Says:

    Myth of the Braves farm system. We have developed good to excellent everyday players including most of the present lineup. Name me a stud pitcher we have developed in the last 5 years. Lets hope that crew at Danville turns out they look good.

  54. 54
    mraver Says:

    I feel there’s a lot of support for this trade based on “these guys are potential, not talent”. While that’s partially true, it’s also partially not.

    Andrus is already MLB-ready defensively. At this point, his floor is Tony Pena, Jr. Granted, that’s nothing spectacular, but it’s still an MLB-level player that you don’t have to pay jack to for 3 years and control cheaply for another 3. That’s valuable to a team. Consider that it’s one less Chris Woodward you have to go out and sign.

    Salty has already shown that he can hit MLB pitching to some extent, and he’s shown that he can play behind the plate at least as well as our current catcher. That right there is also valuable. Two years of not paying a backup catcher who is a more-than-capable bat off the bench is valuable to a team as well.

    So right there, we’re giving up two players who already have MLB-level value and who cost nothing for a total of 5 years. Add in the fact that Salty is also almost a lock to be an at-least-average starting C and will likely be above-average, and we’re starting to talk some serious value. For example, Ramon Hernandez is getting paid $6.5M this year. Bengie Molina is getting $4M, LoDuca $6.6M. And this is if Salty doesn’t develop much. Posada is getting over $10M. So the way I think about it is we’re trading away $8M in value over 3 years for someone we’ll pay $12M for maybe $20M of production (if we’re REALLY lucky) for 1 year.

    You can do the math; $20M in production – 12M in salary = $8M in “value” we’re getting. Which is about the same as the floor value of what we’re trading away. Oh, and what we’re losing will be around for 2 or 3 years instead of 1. Oh, and I didn’t even include arbitration years, which certainly adds value. Or the two pitching prospects, which could certainly flame out but could also turn out well. And who knows, maybe Andrus can turn into Furcal or Renteria or whatever comp you wanna make. And then we just look like complete idiots.

    This trade makes Atlanta better for 2007, and I think we’ll have a legit shot at the playoffs and WS. But the team will be worse off from 2008 on.

  55. 55
    Andy Says:

    Well, they could have tried “Home of the Brave” or “Keeping up with the Joneses”

  56. 56
    JoeyT Says:

    Why do you even visit’s main page or main baseball page? All they do is steal scoops and reprint them. You might as well use an rss aggregator for that.

    I like their stats (in conjunction with hardballtimes), and I like their standings. I don’t stray beyond those two parts of the site.

  57. 57
    Nick Says:

    I’m guessing Thorman since he can only play one position and is now blocked by two people. And somebody will have to go down because Pena is filling Salty’s spot, remember.

    The real question is which pitcher goes down for Mahay? I guess probably Ascanio again? He’s looked pretty good, though. Might we take this chance to jettison somebody? Although come to think of it, Paronto has looked alright in his last couple outings, and he would’ve been the obvious choice. So my guess is Ascanio.

  58. 58
    Ethan Says:

    How is Andrus major league ready defensively? HE HAS 25 ERRORS THIS YEAR!

  59. 59
    mraver Says:

    Also, I think we’re the favorites to win the WC now, and give us a 40% chance to catch the Mets. Luckily, we get to play them a lot down the stretch. A nice 6-3 record against ’em down the stretch should do the trick.

  60. 60
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    Somehow I can picture the ageless one in Bobby’s office right now: “I know you love me Bobby. I’m still starting at first base, right?”.

  61. 61
    Robert Says:

    Name me a stud pitcher we have developed in the last 5 years.

    Right. We throw pitching prospects into every trade we make, which is why we can’t fill out the back of our rotation or bullpen. We’ve tossed two more into this deal.

    If you plan to retire as a Braves fan when JS/Cox/Smoltz do, this is a great deal for you. If not, well, enjoy this next 50 games or so because you are going to be paying for them for a while.

  62. 62
    Rip Says:

    Like Joey T #46 – this is like acquiring Huddy for me. We have been so inept at 1B for too many years. It is a sluggers spot. Hopefully Texy’s gold glove will give us a lift too.

    Even money Matt Diaz is not wearing #23 tomorrow night.

  63. 63
    Moogination Says:

    If Julio makes a single start from here on out, barring Tex on the DL, I will scream. (Not that it wasn’t irritating already).

  64. 64
    csg Says:

    Teixiera replaces Salty
    Mahay replaces Ascanio (who I like)
    Pena has to replace Thorman or Woodward, hopefully Woodie is gone

    Someone on Mlb rumors just posted something from DOB from yesterday. Say that the Tex deal would get done and we would also be looking at getting a starter before tuesday and that rumor hasnt been leaked out yet. Any idea of who they might be looking at

  65. 65
    JoeyT Says:

    A lot of you naysayers sound like I did after the Marte trade.

    Boy was I wrong about that one.

  66. 66
    JoshQ Says:

    Sure I like Andrus’ potential, but teams who pin their hopes on A and AA ball players are called the Pirates and the Royals.

  67. 67
    Tony Says:


    Good grief…worse for 2008 and beyond?

    Anyway I’m just glad the Braves finally have a player who actually college besides Willie Harris and Tim Hudson. I was very impressed with the Arizona strategy of drafting players out of college.

  68. 68
    Tony Says:

    “attended college”

  69. 69
    Nick Says:

    Obviously they were caused by the wind at Myrtle Beach, Ethan.

    Another couple of reasons why it will probably be Thorman and not Franco is that a)Franco is useful for pinch hitting whereas Thorman could not be less useful for that; and b)we didn’t sign Franco all that long ago. We had to know that we were gonna be in the Tex sweepstakes when we signed him, so why would we sign him if we were just gonna DFA him a week and a half later? Plus, I have this sneaking suspicion Bobby would never let JS DFA Franco unless Franco agreed to be a coach with the team and agreed that he was done or something.

  70. 70
    braves14 Says:

    Peanut has comfirmed Feliz is in the deal. Harrison is likely the other pitcher.

  71. 71
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Did Andrus have a pretty bad year last year as well? Or have I been misinformed? I understand he is only 18 as well.

  72. 72
    Tony Says:

    Harrison is not in the deal due to injury…

  73. 73
    braves14 Says:

    “There’s a possibility that the player to be named will be 22-year-old left-handed pitcher Matt Harrison, who was scheduled to have his left shoulder examined by Braves doctors in Atlanta on Monday. Harrison experienced this soreness during a six-inning start for Double-A Mississippi on Tuesday.”

    This according to the updated article on the official site.

  74. 74
    Smitty Says:

    I want to win the wild card. Our record at home is not so good.

    When Harrison is dominating in 2015 some of you will be sorry and some of you will be dead and all that your children will have to remember you is your 2007 World Championship plaque, tee shirts, and hats. Of course the Braves may also win it all in 2015.

  75. 75
    Dan Says:

    The man happiest with this trade: Brayan Pena.

  76. 76
    JDMaker1 Says:

    I’ll cross that road when i get to it Smitty. The future is now.

  77. 77
    Johnny Says:

    Like it. Like it very much. Besides Jermaine Dye and Jason Schmidt name a Brave’s prospect we traded for veteran help that became a star? Using the word star very loosley. Texeira is NOT a superstar to whoever said that but his presence in the lineup makes us way better and the fact that we got an effective reliever out of the deal makes this a great deal. Mahay isn’t Mike Gonazales but he has been effective in a tougher league in a hitters ballpark so theoretically should thrive in the NL and Turner Field.
    Salty – we are basically leveraging a great season in Myrtle Beach, a couple of good weeks in Pearl and a hot start in Atlanta for a bonified switch hitting, good fielding first baseman and a lefty reliver.
    Andrus – Scouts love the atleticism. But they loved Andres Thomas’ athleticism too.
    Harrison – This is the one I hate to lose but tnstaapp.
    Throw in – if its a pitcher see above.

    Salty just might become the next Marc Texiera but since we have the now Marc Texiera we are looking good. I have to hand it to John Schuerholz. He sees the current state of baseball as clearly as anyone. Its too expensive these days to prevent runs by trading for pitching. All you get these days is a journyman having an outlier year, a washed up veteran or a kid with potential that can’t help you win now. Schuerholz also realizes that win now is very important. Our best players are still Smoltz and Chipper and they are getting up there. Win now. Great deal for the Braves.

  78. 78
    Trace Says:

    I don’t think you can win the Wild Card.. you can earn it.. It’s like saying “I won 2nd place”

  79. 79
    Andy Says:

    Re: pitching prospects, it doesnt matter to me whether a prospect contributes to the Braves or if they are traded. Horacio Ramirez got us Soriano; Dan Meyer got us Hudson, so I do not think that the minor league system has done a poor job providing the big league team with pitching. It only seems bad in comparison to the dominant, once-in-a-lifetime rotations of the 1990s.

  80. 80
    Tony Says:

    I like that Smitty…lol

    Yea Dan,

    I always felt Pena was shafted anyway. He will be a solid back-up. Maybe McCann can start hitting now that Salty is DEFINITELY out of the picture.

  81. 81
    Tony Says:

    The Red Sox will get Jermaine Dye? Damn…

  82. 82
    mraver Says:


    I’m confused; what’s wrong with being concerned about next year’s team as well as this years?

  83. 83
    Moogination Says:

    Wish we still had Dye instead of Lockhart and Tucker.

  84. 84
    Nick Says:

    You guys are by far the most conservative and pragmatic sports fans I’ve ever seen. Fans are supposed to be concocting silly trades that have no prayer of happening but if they did would obviously put their team over the top. And you’re worried about what happens three years from now? Jesus, guys. Lighten up.

    Three years from now we’ll put together the team for three years from now. But I cannot remember a single trade involving prospects that JS has made that turned out to completely blown up in our face, and more often then not, the prospects turn out to not be worth a shit. And yet you seem to have absolutely no faith in him whatsoever.

  85. 85
    landogarner Says:


    Dunoo if that was posted already or not.

  86. 86
    landogarner Says:

    Nevermind, it was.

  87. 87
    Rip Says:

    When Ned Yost is managing the Braves in 2009, none of this will matter anyway. Play to win, now.

    Expect Omar M to make a splash. Cant wait to read the NY post headlines tomorrow. Here we come baby…..

  88. 88
    Tony Says:


    If we were not in contention…then I could see some of your points. However, we are in contention…we can worry about next year in the offseason. Let’s focus on this year.

    If we could have gotten Dye back in LF, that would have been awesome…but I’m satisfied.

  89. 89
    njbravesfan Says:

    I think we have to trust JS.

    Salty – Was blocked by McCann at C, and basically we get an all star to replace him at first base where he wasnt natural. So thats an even wash, unless you planned on having salty as the First Basemen of the next decade.

    Andrus – We dont know what this guy is or what he isnt, but right now he is blocked by Renteria, Escobar, Lillibridge, so we can take that.

    Harrison and Felix, this hurts, but you figured they were going, i think for the amount tey got we should have gotten Wilson instead of Mahay.

    But we dont know what there arms will do either, the last cuople prospects that have come up havent been that great, te most solid one is chucky james, and he is here for a while. I do think that Davies will get straightend out, he has a live arm, and has good stuff, if he can be consistant he would be ok. Remember Jason Schmidt was like that too we got rid of him and he was a star, I think Davies is ok, Reyes will be ok too, and the money we save when Smoltzie retires helps us get a new front end guy.

    The thing that worries me is, we dont have much left now to make another trade, and we desperatley need another starter, as I dotn trust Buddy Carlye in the playoffs.

    Let us not forget, barring a severe hemoroid or something, that Hampton will be back next year ,adn you will have Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton James Carlye and a decent pen, if you keep mahay, with gonzo coming back after the injury, soriano, and moylan, and a killer lineup, as you trade AJs contract to fill some holes elsewhere, it could be good!

  90. 90
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    Amen Nick. Too much stuff happens in 3 years. I agree with the comments above that teams like the Pirates and Royals are always hoping it comes together within 3 years and never seem to get there. I haven’t been this excited at the trade deadline in a few years. I hope there is another deal in the works.

  91. 91
    Alex R. Says:

    I am honestly disturbed by the folks being so negative about this deal.

    When did we become the organization afraid to trade prospects for a 27 yr. old supertar in his prime, a switch hiter, and instantly one of our 3 best players (along w/ Chipper and Renty).

    This trade does give me the same butterflies-in-the-stomach that the Hudson deal gave me. It creates excitement, a buzz, about the Braves and this is what being a Braves fan to me is all about.

    At least some people who aren’t as excited about the deal, like Stu, have said they want to see how it’s gonna play out now that we have Tex. But the few of you who are just so negative, I don’t understand it. The Pirates are constantly rebuilding and their fans just staged a walk out.

    Our General manager, John Schuerholz, just got us the best available player at the trading deadline. And you’re COMPLAINING? I am dumbfounded.

    This is awesome. I want to drive home right now from work, put my Braves hat on, and do the tomahawk the rest of the day I am so stoked. To me, this is a GREAT DAY TO BE A BRAVES FAN.

    And yeah, somehow I think we’ll be OK in 2009. I trust JS.

    Also, please will some of you go back and look at past threads to see what was said about Marte, Capellan, Betemit, et all?

    The Braves got the hands down best player in the deal and we are back on the map as a franchise.

    How this isn’t a positive for people who are BRAVES FANS is dumfounding.

    (standing up at desk and clapping and applauding JS for this). Thank you, JS!

  92. 92
    landogarner Says:

    Hahah, good post Alex.

    I just hope we can get Tex to stick around past 2008.

  93. 93
    Moogination Says:

    “Let us not forget, barring a severe hemoroid or something, that Hampton will be back next year”

    I would bet dollars to dimes that a similar comment was made about that last year. I hope you are right, but am not banking on it by any means.

  94. 94
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    I’ve been standing up in my office and clapping too. My people officially think I’m nuts, and that’s OK!

  95. 95
    Alex R. Says:


    I sincerely hope so too–plus, with Hampton’s deal ending next year and the possibility Andruw maybe gone, there’s an excellent chance we keep Tex.

    Plus, word has gotten around that Liberty is increasing payroll. That’s unconfirmed but I have heard it talked about. I assumed (along with everyone) they wouldn’t and this may not be the case.

  96. 96
    Nick Says:

    I really think some people have taken the whole build-from-within, $80 million payroll philosophy a little bit too much to heart. We have new ownership and we aren’t necessarily that team anymore. Once again, there is nothing that says we won’t be able to resign Teixeira and everybody assuming that is assuming the payroll will stay the same, which several things have said it won’t. If it was, we wouldn’t have been able to make this deal in the first place. So unless you all are relatives and friends of Terry “Free Agency is So Inefficient” McGuirk, quit being so freaking grouchy over the deal that may put us over the top.

  97. 97
    Rip Says:

    Any Astros in town tomorrow that could be trade bait?

  98. 98
    timo Says:

    Again, nice post Alex! I feel you!! I just can’t stop smiling. A good day indeed!

  99. 99
    JDMaker1 Says:

    I heard the increase is in the neighborhood of 10-20 Million for next year. (I believe I read that on DOB’s blog).

  100. 100
    Mr Swings @ Everything Says:


  101. 101
    King Diamond Says:

    Right on, guys. This is a slam-dunk trade for the Braves, and as much as I don’t want to look back in horror at this one, I hope Salty and the other guys have successful careers, even if they are not Braves.

    JS is not done. There should be some starting pitching still on the way, too…

  102. 102
    Another Alex R. Says:

    Reply to #53 and #61, who said: Name me a stud pitcher we have developed in the last 5 years.

    Chuck James, people! He’s cheap as dirt, he had a great rookie year last year and is pitching great this year, and has been legitimately out of mind the last month.

    Or look at it this way. Alex R. – who’s our resident Eeyore whenever Bobby screws up with the bullpen – is optimistic about this team! Think about it!

  103. 103
    Coz Says:

    While I can understand some apprehension over the future, I think any self-respecting Braves fan should be elated with their team RIGHT NOW. It’s not like we’ll stop drafting players or stop developing players. In fact, who is to say what prospects come our way in the offseason or next year?

    Fact is, our offense looks to be solid for the rest of the year barring a complete collapse of everyone at the same time and I remain hopeful that JS is not done. I don’t know that he’ll be able to get someone as good as Vazquez, but a starter still seems in the cards for us.

    For one day, at least…let us be positive Braves Journal. :)

  104. 104
    njbravesfan Says:

    Bottom line, there was a glaring hole at first base. Thats FIXED! Doesnt matter what it takes to get it, you had to do it. Now if Bobby is smart he is our fourth hitter, taking pressure off of andruw, which is huge. Plus we get a left hander who is good in the pen.

    Next year we have a full year of him, which is huge, then the following year you lose hamptons salary demand.

    Future is looking up, not down. We can keep Tex around, build for the future at the same time. We have alot of good young players on our team already. Frenchy, McCann, James, Escobar, ect, we will be ok, jsut gotta keep plugging along.

    We needed an impact, you dont know how this effects their psyche too, they might go out nad b elike they got us a huge bat lets go win this thing, the mets are scared too, caues now our first basemen is no longer an easy out, who knows if JS is done trading yet too. Could be a busy deadline

  105. 105
    timo Says:

    Nice going, JS… And now go, get us Javier Vazquez!

  106. 106
    Alex R. Says:

    Thank you AAR, Timo, Nick, Ron, Coz, JD Maker, MAC, Mr. Swings, ububba, Oceanside, Tony, njbravesfan and everyone else joining me on the happy & excited train. We just aquired a 27 year old stud for unknowns. Be happy. It’s OK. Do a little dance. make a little love. Get down tonight.

    And AAR, after some of the posts I have seen the last few weeks, there are definitely a couple of folks more negative than me ;-) But seriously, it’s hard to stop being happy & stop smiling after a day like today. JS has given me another day to be happy as a Braves fan.

  107. 107
    timo Says:

    good point njbravesfan, this trade will make andruw a whole lot better, i am sure.

  108. 108
    njbravesfan Says:

    It has to, i mean, he has been feeling the heat pressing to hit home runs, now he isnt our first option which is chipper, he isnt our second option which is tex, plus renteria and frenchy have been playing better, he is another peice to the puzzle, and maybe he doesnt press.

    People are right, you never know how these prospects are gonna pan out, Thank god we traded Andy Marte who was the next coming, and Capellan, allbeit for the whale kolb, and the list goes on and on and on, but the end result is JS knows what he is doing, fixes our most glaring hole on offense, and in the bullpen by getting us a lefty reliever, tihs is a great trade, had tro do it

  109. 109
    JoshQ Says:

    I also think JS is looking for a starter, but I wonder what he can give up that will get us a very good one. At this point I don’t think he’ll trade Escobar. If I were a betting man, I would bet that Renteria will be dangled in the offseason (although I’m not real excited about that possbilitity). Davies and Thorman doesn’t seem like a very good package. Maybe Anthony Reyes in STL could be had for a reasonable price, but is it worth it?

  110. 110
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    No more negativity! This is a FANFUCKINGTASTIC day for us Braves fans!

  111. 111
    JDMaker1 Says:

    All I can say as I’m excited for tomorrow. I was a big Salts fan, but I’m liking the upside of having Tex for at least 1.5 years. The kid swings a big stick and plays solid D.

  112. 112
    bfan Says:

    i hope we sell out Turner tomorrow night, and go nuts when teixera comes up. Let’s show management/ownership that there is a return for investment. If they see bad crowds, they are going to think twice about investing any more in payroll.

  113. 113
    Tony Says:

    Not only Andruw, but I think this instantly makes KJ, Francouer and McCann better.

  114. 114
    King Diamond Says:

    JoshQ, I’m on the Anthony Reyes bandwagon. I’d prefer Javy Vazquez, but I’d rather Atlanta take a chance on Reyes than deal for Morris, Contreras, Silva or some other mediocre financial albatross…

  115. 115
    Rip Says:

    Finally some news that gets us away from the Michael Vick debate.

    Atlanta needed a shower after all the negative garbage surrounding it over the last two/three weeks.

  116. 116
    csg Says:

    so did we or did we not give up Harrison? The link to the braves site said it was Salty, Adrus, Feliz, and a player to be named later. This might be a good sign

  117. 117
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Looks like No Harrison from what I’ve read.

  118. 118
    Tennessee Brave Says:

    Three cheers for Alex R. and post #91!

  119. 119
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    So it’s just going to be 2 lower level arms instead?

  120. 120
    JoeyT Says:

    I’m honestly looking at this as Tex being Andruw’s replacement next year, offensively. (And Willie Harris defensively.)

    What makes this especially awesome is that we get both of them the rest of this year. From now until the end of the year we have the best team we’ve had for years (and probably will have for years). I like Smoltz-Hudson-James-Carlyle. I like a bullpen featuring Soriano and Wickman. I like a lineup that suddenly looks like something out of the top of the AL East. This is a really good team now.

  121. 121
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    Alex R = sanity and awesome.

  122. 122
    The artist formerly known as Unknown Says:

    Tuesday’s game is going to be fun!

  123. 123
    Stu Says:

    Again, I’m definitely excited to add Teix to this lineup. And again, I just think it was at too steep a price, at least if we’re unable to keep Teix past 2008.


    Suggesting that people pick different teams to follow if they don’t like this particular decision is so lame. The only opinion Braves fans have to share is that we want the team to win.


    With all that said, I’m done complaining. AAR, JoeyT and Alex have convinced me that it’s okay to let my excitement for this acquisition trump my concerns about the future.

    I will say that comparing the McGriff deal—even as of the date it was made—to this one, in terms of the value of what we gave up, shows a clear lack of ability to differentiate among prospects.

  124. 124
    Nick Says:

    We still have Reyes, Josh, although trading a starting pitcher for a starting pitcher is kind of pointless and since the pitcher we’d be getting back would almost certainly be better than Reyes, we’d have to throw someone else in, too. It’ll be intersting to see what’s done in this regard, though. All of the prominent mid-rotation pitchers that have been publicized as available are waaaaay overpriced, but if he’s dealing with people who are under the radar, as has been indicated, it’s quite possible we could get one for a good price.

    I’m sure we could include Thorman or Davies (maybe not both) in some sort of deal. They’re not completely hopeless and there’s some talent there to be harnessed in both cases. I could see someone taking a chance on one of them.

  125. 125
    The artist formerly known as Unknown Says:

    Joey T,

    The braves won’t go into next year with Harris as starting CF. Look for Cameron or another second tier player.

  126. 126
    Another Alex R. Says:

    Josh, it’s an interesting thought. Reyes definitely still has a high upside, even though it’s looking like he may need a change of scenery. I think he just picked the wrong year to be a rookie: St. Louis’ rotation had SO many holes this year, he just didn’t really have any room for growing pains. And he was unlucky. His ERA was bad, but he got a lot of strikeouts. If St. Louis has soured on him, he could make another team look very smart.

  127. 127
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    As it stands now, I say that we’re average or well above average at all positions and rotation slots, and assuming Soriano and Wickman and Mahay maintain, an above average bullpen as well. I like our chances like woah.

  128. 128
    JoshQ Says:

    Anthony Reyes from ST. Louis, Nick.
    I am not talking about JO-JO.

  129. 129
    Moogination Says:

    JoeyT – I’ve been understanding all along (and this was probably my own concotion), that Tex was being brought in to bridge the offense after Andruw’s departure at the end of this year. Perhaps to Tex, or perhaps to someone else in 2009.

    But you are all kidding yourself if you think that JS or his successor is going to drain this franchise because we don’t have a few minor league prospects and Salty. We are good to go for a while now. Talk about a shot in the arm.

  130. 130
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    How highly regarded was Nieves back then? Pretty damn highly I thought. And remember, Salty wasn’t exactly the best prospect in baseball coming into this year, or last. He was around 30-50 on most lists I saw. Clearly, he’s one of the better catchers and had an off-2006, but still. (And I know it’s been beaten to death but Marte was a lot “better” too)

  131. 131
    Nick Says:

    Yeah, I know. I was saying we still have Jo-Jo to include in any potential deal. I understood who you were talking about.

  132. 132
    The artist formerly known as Unknown Says:

    Willie Harris stats in July.

    .244 Average
    0 HR
    3 SB


  133. 133
    Jason Says:

    Put me in the excited crowd. It sux that we had to give so much, but every so often you just have to say “WTF”, and go for it all. Salty, Andrus, et. al may end up world beaters, but as they say: Flags Fly Forever.

    Kudos to JS for getting the best player available.

  134. 134
    Alex R. Says:

    Thanks Tennessee & Josh for the kind words–right back at you, fellow Braves fans.

    Yes, it’s good to see the happy folks are strongly outnumbering the naysayers.

    Tennessee…I meant to thank you earlier for pointing out that Tex’s wife is named Georgia. C’mon, people, now THAT’S a sign.

  135. 135
    Rip Says:

    Do you bat Texy at #5 to give Andruw some protection?

    Do you put Texy at #4 with Bobby rotating Andruw and Mac at the #5 spot depending on where we faced Lefy or righty?

  136. 136
    Smitty Says:

    I can’t wait to see big Tex go yard tomorrow.

  137. 137
    csg Says:

    hey if we got this deal w/out giving up Harrison it makes this a whole lot better doesnt it? Two lower level arms with Andrus and Salty. Until this is completed we dont know who the other person is, could it be that Hanson kid? Here’s another report saying that its Feliz and a pitcher to be named later. I wonder if they are making up the Harrison shoulder thing just to keep him?

  138. 138
    noah Says:

    I’m reasonably happy about the deal. If we sign Teixeria long-term, I’ll think it was a pretty even exchange.

    Glad we didn’t give up Matt Harrison as well…

  139. 139
    Alex R. Says:

    I would drop Andruw to 6 or 7 but I don’t think Cox will do that.

  140. 140
    timo Says:

    Let’s hug it out, Stu. It’s all good :-)

  141. 141
    Smitty Says:

    Stu, come on join the positive side.

  142. 142
    Hate King Says:

    It’s days like today that we need BravesJournal stats and your most comparable poster. Count me in the optimistic group for this trade. JS knows what he is doing. Hopefully we can resign Teixeira.

  143. 143
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    All from… just for information sake.

    Salty = #36 in 2007
    Salty = #18 in 2006
    Nieves = #39 in 1993 (last year with Braves)

    Marte = #9 in 2005
    Marte = #11 in 2004
    Marte = #40 in 2003

    Just for some comparison….
    McCann = #44 in 2005
    Teixeira = #1 in 2003!

    And the Braves had FOUR years in the 90’s with the #1 prospect in baseball. Scary.

  144. 144
    King Diamond Says:

    The DRays may be flipping Dan Wheeler to get a prospect. He’d be a great pickup if JS can find a match there…

  145. 145
    Stu Says:


    That’s prolly what I’d do, and there’s a 0% chance of it happening.

  146. 146
    Smitty Says:

    I am super positive.

    I didn’t think Salty would pan out to be as great as everyone thought he would be. You know, “the next Johnny Bench”

  147. 147
    Parish Says:

    Midseason Salty was around a top ten prospect. Currently, even before the trade, I think the best pitching prospects in the system are Hanson, Harrison, and Rohrbough. Someone posted a list of top ten and I agree with the names except I would exchange Steve Evarts for Jeff Locke.

  148. 148
    Ethan Says:

    Rosenthal just posted this:

    The Braves could be on the verge of not only acquiring the best hitter on the trade market, but one of the best relievers as well.

    In addition to reaching a preliminary agreement for Rangers first baseman Mark Teixeira, the Braves are close to a deal for Royals closer Octavio Dotel, according to major-league sources.
    The Braves, Indians and Dodgers are the three finalists for Dotel, sources say. Royals general manager Dayton Moore, previously an executive with Atlanta, is intimately acquainted with the Braves’ farm system.

    The addition of Dotel would give the Braves a trio of formidable right-handers in the late innings — Dotel, Rafael Soriano and Bob Wickman.

    The Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers and Mariners also have shown interest in Dotel.

  149. 149
    JoeyT Says:

    google news’ top headline for “mlb trade”:

    “MLB trade gives Mets’ foe another bat”


  150. 150
    King Diamond Says:

    Wow..Dotel would be fantastic, but I’m leery of making a deal with Moore. He may be savvier than anyone else in the Braves organization since he knows the farm system so well…

  151. 151
    mscollin Says:

    As much as I think JS has done for the club I think this trade was a mistake.If Bobby stuck in salty 20-30 games ago at first,avg for first basemen would be around 270 with 10 hr.Anyone notice tex is having an off year,granpa sosa and young arre putting up better numbers than tex. Run saltys numbers up to 80 games let him hit in some key situations drive in some runs.Numbers wouldnt be that much different than tex this year. Why not have a cheap stud catcher playing first in the case mcCann gets hurt

  152. 152
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Good Post Ethan. That would be pretty exciting. Less of Wickman would be good.

  153. 153
    Tom L Says: says we’re close to getting Dotel

  154. 154
    Parish Says:

    McCann is the next Johnny Bench.

    I am very excited about watching the Atlanta Braves over the rest of the season. Tex should make this a more exciting team to watch.

    However, Stu is right to say the price is too steep. You do have to recognize the value of prospects. A part of the reason the Nationals are so bad is that they have for years depleted their minors for quick fixes.

    Trading of prospects is necessary, but you have to know which ones to let go and which to keep. I sure hope JS knows something we do not as regards the players he just shipped to the Rangers.

  155. 155
    Stu Says:

    Dotel could be our Road Closer.

    Let’s get a starter.

    Who would we give up for Dotel?

  156. 156
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    But knowing that Moore knows the farm system, would he likely be willing to take a bigger chance and see the potential upside of Davies or Thor? And they don’t cost a lot either. Interesting.

  157. 157
    Stu Says:

    Given Bobby’s tendencies, I’d put the over/under at 2 weeks on Dotel blowing his arm out.

  158. 158
    Parish Says:

    Is there anyone left to give up for Dotel?

  159. 159
    Chuck G Says:

    @67: Hudson didn’t go to college, he went to Auburn.

    @Stu: I’d settle for Andruw being dropped to 5th. As much as those first three get on base, a marginally competent power hitter winds up with ridiculous numbers from the cleanup spot. I think Teix is that guy.

    @everyone else: I like the trade. JS has never made a “Francisco Liriano and Joe Nathan for A.J. Pierzynski” trade and I don’t think he’d start now. It sucks that Daniels was able to win the stare-down but in the long run, I doubt it’ll matter much.

  160. 160
    Kevin Lee Says:

    Let’s see:
    T…um, i before e, no that doesn’t look right…
    Oh, hell. Welcome to the ATL, Tex. wait ’til you see those people all choppin’ up in the stands!
    And haven’t AL players fallen in love with NL baseball when they get here?

  161. 161
    JoeyT Says:

    Bet you money he offered Thorman for Dotel.

  162. 162
    Hate King Says:

    Moore may overvalue guys in the Braves’ system more than other GMs due to his familiarity. It could work both ways.

  163. 163
    Ethan Says:

    Maybe he would take Davies for Dotel.

  164. 164
    Tony Says:

    Wheel and deal JS…we need to win this thing this year, at least while you are still on TBS.

  165. 165
    JoshQ Says:

    One of the possible names mlbtraderumors says that Thorman could go to KC in a Dotel trade. Uhhh, is that really a possibility or am I dreaming?

  166. 166
    Murphy3Ever Says:

    alex R, i also stood in my office and clapped. although there’s nobody else in here… so i think i’ve still preserved my image of sanity

  167. 167
    Jeremy Says:

    I imagine Davies would go to KC in any package for Dotel. He’s a guy Moore drafted and was high on. I guess that could be said about a lot of players in the Braves’ minor league system though.

  168. 168
    Stu Says:

    I would pee my swim trunks (still at the beach) if we got Dotel for Thorman.

  169. 169
    ermoore Says:

    MLB Trade Rumors is reporting that we’re trying to land Dotal from the Royals now.

  170. 170
    JoshQ Says:

    I just pee’d a little at that comment Stu.

  171. 171
    Smitty Says:

    If we get Dotel for Thorman and any sort of starting pitching, I will cry.

  172. 172
    Tony Says:

    That’s a possibility since JS protege is the GM in KC….

  173. 173
    Alex R. Says:


    You are being negative again (I so feel like our roles have reveresed…) but then again, the way Bobby manages a bullpen, I could see him using Dotel in a 9-1 game. In this case, you kind of have a right to be skeptical.

    Still, I would love to add Dotel, this team needs more arms, but yeah, I am very worried about Bobby over using him.

  174. 174
    King Diamond Says:

    Thor for Dotel? It could happen. Thor does have massive potential, as his track record indicates marked improvement after acclimation to each progressive level of baseball. He could be a useful 1B next year, and his power is something the Royals need. Thor is finished in Atlanta.

    It’s really not far-fetched that Moore/KC could use him, but I think the Braves would have to add a player or two with Thor to get it done.

  175. 175
    JoeyT Says:

    Thorman for Dotel makes sense for everybody, especially if they want Gordon playing 3B. Butler needs to DH, Gload can play the OF, and Gordon belongs at the other corner. Shealy’s been a bust. They need a 1B who’s not too expensive. Thorman for Dotel is about right.

  176. 176
    Mr Swings @ Everything Says:

    Honestly, I was being a bit sarcastic but it’s hard to not be excited about getting Texeira. I’d still rather have given Diaz a real shot at 1B but the chance for that has passed now. We’ve just got to hope now that Cox will realize when Harris is past his sell by date and that Diaz will start getting the lion’s share of the playing time out there. He certainly deserves it. I would have nutted up and demanded a trade by now.

  177. 177
    njbravesfan Says:

    hey, how could we not do that trade? those two guys arent in bobbys plans.

    If the end of the Pen is, Dotel, Soriano Wickman, and throw in Yates and Moylan and Mahay, thats a solid pen, rebuilt, keep dotel around another year, and have the bridge be gonzo soriano dotel,

    i dont think JS is done, i think he is gonna pull out all of the stops, he wnats to win!

  178. 178
    Smitty Says:

    Who does Bobby beat on more, his wife or his bull pen?

  179. 179
    JoshQ Says:

    Comment on Mlbtraderumors from a Mets fan…

    “Teixeira? Fine. But Teixeira and Dotel? I’m getting a little nervous…”

    What a fun day!!!

  180. 180
    bfan Says:

    Guys, Thorman didn’t work out well this year, but he is going to hit MLB pitching. Everyone said going into the season that he takes a half season to adjust to a new (higher) level, and then he catches on at that level, and hits. He had done that twice in the minors. He goes out and does what everyone kind of expected, and now everyone wants to dump on the poor guy. I am not saying do not make this trade, but I am saying that if he turns out to be a .280 20 HR guy, it would not surprise me. He is no Teixera, but he is no Rico Brogna, either.

  181. 181
    Andy Says:

    Who would we give up for Dotel? Has he been hurt? He hasn’t played much lately.

  182. 182
    Alex R. Says:

    Stu, I missed you being positive while I was typing earlier – sorry :-)

    Yes, I would pee and do the chicken dance if JS gets Dotel for Thorman. That would be frakking awesome.

  183. 183
    Alex R. Says:

    And finally, the cherry on the sunday is if JS then deals Davies to Pittsburgh for Marte. Who could we add to the deal to also get Gorzelanny?

  184. 184
    King Diamond Says:

    Andy, Dotel is closing for the Royals. There just are not many opportunities to pitch in that role.

    He’s been mostly healthy aside from an oblique strain at the start of the year.

  185. 185
    JoeyT Says:

    I’m going to make a wild guess and say that the reason Dotel hasn’t been traded yet is that they were waiting to trade him for Thorman, who wasn’t expendable until the Braves acquired Tex.

    Thorman has a lot of upside an fills a hole on the Royals. They probably actively want him.

  186. 186
    Stu Says:

    I don’t disagree with you about Thorman’s potential, bfan, but I think he no longer has a spot on this team. Either Teix is here for a long time, or The Big Hawaiian is ready to step in after 2008.

  187. 187
    RobBroad4th Says:

    A new mnemonic for spelling “Teixeira” correctly:

    “To get this guy we sold the farm
    E I E I in Teixeira.”

  188. 188
    doubledawg Says:

    Why do we think there is a snowball’s chance we’d sign Teixeira? Boras will not let that happen. I can only assume the Braves saw some flaws in Salty the past month that made the want to sell high. His july numbers indicate that might be the case.

    .228/.274/.263 along with a Francournakova like 23/6 (K/BB ratio) the past two months.

  189. 189
    Andy Says:

    KD – But Dotel only pitched 25 total innings the previous two years. I’m guessing he’s healty now?

  190. 190
    Parish Says:

    JoeyT @ 184 – That makes a lot of sense. I would be pleased

  191. 191
    Tony Says:

    Smitty…that was pretty low.

    I also think Thorman will hit major league pitching. Speaking of Braves 1st baseman, did anyone see Mike Hessman last night playing for the Tigers. Apparently he had like 27 hr in AAA.

  192. 192
    Moogination Says:

    Dotel has a 5.5 MM player option for next year.

    Fun fact of the day:
    His contract commands a $1MM payout for a WS MVP.

  193. 193
    Alex R. Says:

    Stu…I totally agree with that. But I also don’t think Thor was ever going to develop into what we might have hoped.

    I was skeptical when he replaced LaRoche but we got Gonzo so I was happy (at the time, not knowing Gonzo would blow out his elbow).

    But wow, if we net Dotel and all it takes is freaking Thorman, I seriously might faint from happiness.

    It would be like that Steve Carrell moment at the end of “The 40 Year Old Virgin” when he’s finally had sex and he starts having the dream of ‘age of aquarius’.

  194. 194
    Stu Says:


    As others have mentioned, we have an awful lot of current payroll off the books by then, and it’s possible they’ll try to keep Teix to continue building the offense around.

  195. 195
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Nothing? I thought the mnemonic was funny.

  196. 196
    Stu Says:

    BTW, in case anyone cares, I would be fully against giving up Davies for Dotel. Can’t wait for the responses to that one.

  197. 197
    RobBroad4th Says:

    I agree, Stu. Giving up a SP who needs to build his confidence for ANOTHER closer is sort of absurd.

  198. 198
    Nick Says:

    Dotel for Thorman? Are you kidding me? If we do that, can we offically call this the greatest trade deadline ever? Wow. I’m actually kind of speechless right now.

  199. 199
    JoshQ Says:

    Are you just trying to pick a fight, Stu?

    I don’t think Davies is going anywhere. From all accounts, the Royals have been asking or position players for Dotel.

  200. 200
    King Diamond Says:

    Dotel had TJ surgery in 2005 and spent 2006 recovering with NYY, who strangely paid him to rehab with no 2nd year on the deal to actually pitch for them.

    The Royals gambled he’d be healthy and his arm has looked very good. His K rate is strong and he seems to be totally healthy now.

    I know him well because he’s been on my fantasy team all year….

  201. 201
    Alex R. Says:

    Nick, I know, me too. It’s really hard to focus on work–and that’s just thinking about the highway robbery of Thorman for Dotel.

  202. 202
    RobBroad4th Says:

    AND if we trade Thorman, there’s more of a chance we’ll send Woodward down to make room for Brayan Pena. This is getting better and better.

  203. 203
    Zach Says:

    The Mets are feeling the heat and have apparntly agreed to send 2 minor leaguers for Luis Castillo.

  204. 204
    Parish Says:

    I saw a rumor that it might be Brandon Jones.

    I hope it’s Thorman. For our sake and for Thorman’s.

  205. 205
    Tony Says:

    You don’t trade Davies…he’s too young. And he has proven he can get major leaguers out. Just not consistently. I think he’s too young to give up on completely.

  206. 206
    Stu Says:


    Huh? I can’t give an honest opinion? I think we’d be selling WAY low on Kyle—i still have hopes that he’ll be in the middle of our rotation in the relatively near future.

  207. 207
    JoeyT Says:

    I’m with you on that, Stu. I don’t think Davies for Dotel would be a good move.

    Magic 8-ball, what do you have to say?


    How about Thorman?


  208. 208
    Keith the Champ Says:

    let’s resign mark redman and trade him for dotel

  209. 209
    Smitty Says:

    Luis Castillo is a soild player, but he can’t pitch!

  210. 210
    njbravesfan Says:

    For what its worth, guy i know said he thinks its thorman, or jones, no davies but he thinks its def thor

  211. 211
    Nick Says:

    So you guys who for some reason wouldn’t want to trade Davies for Dotel haven’t once complained about the bullpen in the last two weeks, right?

    I think Thorman is more likely, especially since we’ll have to get rid of him anyway with Tex coming in, but why would we not want to trade Davies for him?

  212. 212
    Zach Says:

    Not Jones, please.

  213. 213
    Trace Says:

    Stu, I agree.

    I think Kyle Davies has the “stuff” to get major league hitters out, just not a good head on his shoulders. Maybe a sports psychiatrist could help him out like what happened with Smoltz.

  214. 214
    Tony Says:

    Awww Damn….Bill Walsh is dead. I knew something would damper my day….

  215. 215
    Keith the Champ Says:

    Trading jones would be a bad, bad idea. i can’t see JS signing off on that one.

  216. 216
    Alex R. Says:

    I think I heard a rumor that the Braves just resigned Craig Wilson to send him to Pittsburgh for Marte & Snell.

    Obviously not, but that’s how this day is feeling.

  217. 217
    Nick Says:

    Alright, sorry. You gave a reason while I was typing that up.

    I will say that I once thought that about Davies, but I’m afraid I’ve officially given up on him. I actually spent money to attend that game where he didn’t get a single out. Still sore about that one. Although it was offset nicely by the fact that later that week I also was at the Harris six-hit game.

  218. 218
    Zach Says:

    Seriously, I’m getting exactly no work done at all.

  219. 219
    Keith the Champ Says:

    the only rumor better than that one would be that the Mets are close to a deal for Redman and Dan Kolb.

  220. 220
    RobBroad4th Says:


    Our problem now and next year is starting pitching. Why trade a promising starter for another closer?

  221. 221
    ububba Says:

    Dotel would make me a tad giddy, but I agree that I’d like to see a professional major-league starter, too.

    OK, not giddy, but greedy.

    Trust JS, trust JS, ohmmmmmm…..

  222. 222
    JoshQ Says:

    Stu, I WAS JUST KIDDING AROUND!!! I’m with you that you can’t trade Davies for Dotel.

  223. 223
    Nick Says:

    Ooooooh…Luis Castillo. I’m petrified with fear.

  224. 224
    RobBroad4th Says:

    What trade chips do we have for a decent starter? I would hate to trade Renty.

  225. 225
    Alex R. Says:


    Nothing would please me more than seeing Kolbb in a Mets uniform. Even Winston the watercooler would be doing a little jig.

  226. 226
    Stu Says:

    Well, shucks, Nick, you’re right. Let’s trade McCann and James for Dotel. Because if there’s a problem, you fix it, no matter the cost.

  227. 227
    Nick Says:

    Because our bullpen needs help and I’m not exactly sure how promising Davies is anymore.

    All things being equal, I would rather trade Thorman, though, and I don’t think the deal is for Davies anyway.

  228. 228
    Nick Says:

    I’m gonna pretend you didn’t actually just say that, Stu, and we’re gonna move along now.

  229. 229
    Alex R. Says:

    I don’t think anyone is talking about dealing James & McCann. Let’s all be happy about Teixeira and likely Thorman for Dotel. This is fucking Disneyland for us Braves fans right now!

  230. 230
    JoshQ Says:

    Funny that the big news for the Mets is Luis Castillo. Gasp!!!
    It also seems like the Tex deal was just a domino that needed to fall in order to spur more movement. JS’s plan A.1 was for Tex and now A.2 is for Dotel. Maybe I’m greedy, but I’d love to see if there is an A.3.

  231. 231
    Hate King Says:

    I just text messaged my three mets friends and they all replied within less than a minute. They are scuuurrred! Though one did have a quality response, “Without salty your lineup is as bland as schuerholz’s autobiography”

  232. 232
    Coz Says:

    I’d rather have Vazquez, but Dotel ain’t bad. Still, we are likely to need another dependable starter.

  233. 233
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Hate King,

    Yeah, Salty has been great in our lineup lately. Looking sad and clutching a bat.

  234. 234
    njbravesfan Says:

    while JS is at it, lets go get a 3rd or 4th starter. on,, they are all saying we made a bad trade for tex cause we gave up too much and dotel isnt good and blah blah blah, well, they must be scared, because if we get dotel, and we are able to get another starter, our lineup is sick, our pen is alot better because of Mahay the lefty and dotel the righty, and if we get a starter, anyone, or if reyes can settle down, we are in great shape for this year and next year with teh addition of hampton, the loss of andruw gives us money to get an equal cf and fill a whole elsewhere be it the rotation the pen or the bench?

  235. 235
    Nick Says:

    Clearly with Castillo the Mets plan on annoying us to death. I will give them that the top of their lineup will be the most infuriating in baseball with he and Reyes. It will rival that year the Marlins had Pierre and Castillo for the amount of cheap-ass hits.

  236. 236
    Icebox 44 Says:

    Did I not read once that other GMs were starting to get uneasy when dealing with JS and he wanted to give up a picher. The tone was if the Braves want to move a pitcher the up side is limited. Other than Wainwright that is true.

    By the way I think Chuckie is good but not a stud just yet.

  237. 237
    Andy Says:

    I’m not sure about Dotel. He’s striking out batters but also allowing a lot of baserunners. Plus coming off TJ surgery . . .. I d’give Thorman for him, but not much else.

    Castillo is a good pickup for the Mets. He fills a hole for them. I don’t think he makes them better so much as he keeps them from being worse after Valentin was hurt.

  238. 238
    Stu Says:

    Sorry, Nick, it was late. Supposed to be in response to your “you can’t be against this if you’ve complained about the bullpen before” line.

  239. 239
    sansho1 Says:

    Thorman for Dotel would make my day. I noticed last year that Thor had shown the capacity for improvement once he acclamates to a new level. Then I saw him swing. That’s a swing with a ceiling, folks, and it’s not a high one, either.

  240. 240
    Nick Says:

    Alright, fair enough.

  241. 241
    Keith the Champ Says:

    if we get dotel for thorman i will name my firstborn son John Shurholtz

  242. 242
    JoshQ Says:

    I’m extremely high now on our chances at the postseason. In my opinion, the ability to have Dotel, Soriano, and Wickman in any postseason series is more important than a 3rd starter. I think James is solid enough to get the job done. If a team can shorten the game to six innings, then you have to like their chances.

  243. 243
    RobBroad4th Says:

    What kind of starting pitching should we be after and what will we have to give up to get it?

  244. 244
    Coz Says:

    If a team can shorten the game to six innings, then you have to like their chances.

    Of course, that’s what we were all saying at the beginning of the year with Gonzo and Soriano. ;)

  245. 245
    RobBroad4th Says:


    The way Wickman and Soriano have been pitching lately, that’s a pretty extreme statement.

  246. 246
    ububba Says:

    Personally, I’m done with Davies—I’ve seen enough. I will never pine for him if and when he leaves.

    But if we were to trade him, I also would prefer to land a starter.

  247. 247
    JoshQ Says:

    Rob, I did put an “If” in my statement.

  248. 248
    Keith the Champ Says:

    His middle name will be liberty media

  249. 249
    Smitty Says:

    It gets better:

    Reds deal Lohse to Phils for prospect

  250. 250
    njbravesfan Says:

    ok you guys might shoot me, but with chipper tex frenchy mccan, is renteria expendeble IF we can get a top of the line starter? Like if the Sox said here is Garland for Renteria, would you rather have a staff with Smoltz Huddy Garland and the infield with tex chipper kelly and escobar, or would you take your chances with Chucky as #3 and edgar in the lineup?

  251. 251
    RobBroad4th Says:

    I was actually worried we’d end up with nothing on Wednesday.

  252. 252
    Nick Says:

    Given that we’re going after more relief, I’m starting to think that maybe we’ve decided the other GMs are asking for way too much on starting pitching. I wouldn’t be surprised if we try to sign one off of waivers or something. It’s kind of weird how the perceived “thing that everyone needs” has shifted. Over the last several years, it’s been bullpen help and this year, it’s starting pitching, for some reason.

  253. 253
    JoshQ Says:

    Phils just got Kyle Lohse.

  254. 254
    ububba Says:

    No, I don’t bite on that one.

  255. 255
    RobBroad4th Says:


    Completely agree. JS has to get creative with ways to help the team since the market for SP is so unimpressive.

  256. 256
    Dan Says:

    “Reds deal Lohse to Phils for prospect”

    Schuerholz is making the division rivals panic.

  257. 257
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Me neither, njb, but I’ve probably made that abundantly clear.

  258. 258
    Nick Says:

    Yeah, I guess he’s slightly more expendable now than he was yesterday, theoretically, but I still just wouldn’t want to trade the guy who’s been the MVP of my teams thus far. Even forgetting all the numbers we’d be losing, messing with team chemsitry like that is just never a good thing.

  259. 259
    JoeyT Says:

    source on lohse?

  260. 260
    njbravesfan Says:

    Yeah, just a thought to throw out there. I think the infield is now mashers, and if we continue to get AJ to get better, frenchy is ok, and anything out of left field would be nice, we have a great lineup. BUT i am scared with the back 60% of our rotation, although i dont know if anyone has a better 1-2 punch than smoltz and huddy when they are on. I wonder if we could have gotten kyle lohse if he would have helped us?

    Dan made a good point in 255, JS has the league panicked, lets see Omar make a dumb move or better yet, the phillies are destined to do sometihng dumb

  261. 261
    Smitty Says:

    Loshe word on on confirmed by Ken Rosenthal at

  262. 262
    Nick Says:

    You mean like trade for Lohse?

    Kyle Lohse, by the way, is the epitome of the current available starting pitching market. All the ones available are pretty much like that. So IMO it would be more better just to find one off waivers and give him a flier or something.

  263. 263
    JoeyT Says:

    I was just confused because ESPN hadn’t stolen the Lohse story yet and presented it as their own.

    Thanks, Smitty.

  264. 264
    Nick Says:

    More better…LOL. Me talk good.

  265. 265
    ububba Says:

    Listening to DOB on WFAN in NYC right now.

  266. 266
    Alex R. Says:

    Yes, Castillo, Lohse…oh, yes, the evil minions in the northeast are indeed panicking. This is FUN.

  267. 267
    Nick Says:

    Anyone have the official Teixeira deal yet BTW?

  268. 268
    Alex R. Says:

    Hey, everybody, who’s more NOW?

    Mark Teixeira vs. Luis Castillo vs. Kyle Lohse.


  269. 269
    RobBroad4th Says:

    An official announcement will be made later this afternoon according to

  270. 270
    Sam Says:

    I thought that this was a final word?

  271. 271
    mscollin Says:

    I dont think we can get a top of the line starter. If garland were obtainable for edgar I’d let him go. Braves have talent in the infield.3 top pitchers in a 5 game series looks awfully good around playoff time

  272. 272
    Stu Says:

    I look forward to the Teixeira-Lohse matchup.

  273. 273
    Alex R. Says:

    Seriously, I bet Stu-YAH Scott starts a separate tournament with say Erin Andrews, Kevin James and Mike Greenberg to figure out who’s more NOW among the people traded.

    It would be SO ESPN.

  274. 274
    ububba Says:

    DOB says he thinks this Tex trade makes the Braves a playoff team.

    He says JS isn’t finished dealing and that JS & Bobby are playing for this year & next.

    And he believes the Braves will overtake the Mets and win the division.

  275. 275
    JoshQ Says:

    Lohse deal proves why were are going after Dotel instead of a starter. I really believe that what we have now is as good as it’s gonna be. There are no game changing pitchers on the market and even if there were that team would want our farm system.

  276. 276
    Kyle B. Says:

    Acquiring a big name player like Tex will definetly have an impact on the Mets and Phils clubhouses, especially before some big series’ coming up. For me, the trade works. Salty was too good not to play, so why not maximize the value?

  277. 277
    JoshQ Says:

    AlexR, now am I gonna have to scold you for bringing up Who’s NOW? Remember I got in trouble around here last week for my reference to it. :)

  278. 278
    RobBroad4th Says:

    3rd paragraph, Sam.

  279. 279
    Kyle B. Says:

    Alex R. –

    Julio Franco is so NOW. Wait, is it 1981?

  280. 280
    Nick Says:

    So if Harrison is hurt, would we throw in another player or would we do the whole cash thing that normally happens to us in these PTBNL deals?

  281. 281
    njbravesfan Says:

    I guess, if you dont go out and get a starter, then we will adress another area, like perhaps another bullpen arm, or something that might shock us like a bench player or a left fielder?

    Although i find it hard to believe he wont add another arm for the rotation or at least try.

    If the White Sox want to sell, they will lower it all tommorow.

    Mike and the Mad Dog doesnt think Dotel is a difference maker but Tex could be, but isnt a solid difference maker, NY is scared!

  282. 282
    Kyle B. Says:

    Did Willis get dealt anywhere or did his 7 straight losses take him off the market?

  283. 283
    njbravesfan Says:

    Harrisons MRI was clean today he will be added to the deal

  284. 284
    Dan Says:

    Teixeira’s OBP is over .400. Put him in the fourth hole, and you have two consective batters who get on base 40% of the time.

  285. 285
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Both of our LF are hitting over .315 and the defense is above adequate. Why is it a problem?

  286. 286
    njbravesfan Says:

    since the dominoes are falling today and there is a run on trades, because people cant wait. Tommorow at 4 might be extremeley boring or else, maybe the mets say hey we need help now and make a blockbuster

  287. 287
    njbravesfan Says:

    285 Robbroad4th, Im just scared in the clutch Willie will falter or Diaz will, I hope Im wrong, as I love Diaz bat and Willie is quick and all, but im just saying thats an area we could upgrade.

    hey I heard Dave Roberts is out there, jk

    Two weeks ago i read this article that said we were scouting Ryan Klesko, thank god we got Tex instead!

  288. 288
    timo Says:

    Smoltzie will be happy! I am just watching a Show on Golfcannel UK featuring DeRosa, Mench, Laird and our man, Mark Teixeira. He knows how to play golf, that’s for sure. Is there anytjing he can’t do?? ;-)

  289. 289
    RobBroad4th Says: seems to think the Mets should go after the Sammy “the Cork King” Sosa.

  290. 290
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Who was the PTBNL in the Langerhans deal? A bat boy?

  291. 291
    RobBroad4th Says:

    I think it was just cash, JD.

  292. 292
    Smitty Says:

    IF the Mets can get Sosa, it will be the greatest day ever!

  293. 293
    Andy Says:

    What do we have left to offer in trade to get a starting pitcher? I wouldn’t trade Renteria until the offseason.

  294. 294
    Nick Says:

    That would be so freaking hilarious. Perhaps our man Daniels could even get them to give something up for him in their panic. Oh man, would that be great. If I were the Rangers GM, I think I’d be willing to trade him for a spaghetti dinner.

  295. 295
    njbravesfan Says:

    i have a deep fear we might see Kyle Farnsworth back here too

  296. 296
    RobBroad4th Says:

    I shudder at the thought.

  297. 297
    ububba Says:

    Francesa is a Yanks fan & the Mad Dog is a Giants fan.

    Both kinda hate the Mets, so they lay it on thick & heavy whenever they can (although Francesa has lightened a little bit since Randolph took over the Mets).

    The Dog’s Yankee-baiting, however, is classic.

  298. 298
    JoshQ Says:

    Maybe as part of the deal for Tex, JS convinced Daniels to ship Sosa to the Mets for Milledge and Maine.

  299. 299
    njbravesfan Says:

    O i know, i listen to them every day, im just saying, they hate the braves too. I dotn know,

    I hear that the Braves have looked at Damaso Marte, i wonder if they get dotel if that trade is dead?

    I still think there is gonna be a third trade too, i dotn think he is done with tex mahay and dotel

  300. 300
    Zach Says:

    Did you hear about Farnsworth’s most recent blow-up? He turned his back when Posada came to the mound after getting crossed up and Arod had to get in between them. He is such an idiot.

  301. 301
    RobBroad4th Says:

    That’s happened before! What a jerk.

  302. 302
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Wasn’t there a deal earlier this year for cash and a PTBNL?

  303. 303
    Nick Says:

    I would really like to know if Stu would now think the deal is worth it if that was part of it.

  304. 304
    bfan Says:

    Farnsworth was superb here. What is ot to like about this line?

    27.3 15 6 6 4 7 32

  305. 305
    Rufino Linares Says:

    With Moises Alou just back off the DL, that’s as good as making a trade for the Mets, I would say. His presence makes their lineup pretty stout and would, I surmise, obviate the need for a Sosa trade. Of course, I hope the Mets DO go after Sosa, because man, does he ever suck…

  306. 306
    njbravesfan Says:

    i could see if marte doesnt come in, and Farnsworth is valued at 0 JS pickinghim up for nothing and the yankees paying his salary which would be terrible for us!

  307. 307
    ububba Says:

    Ever since the ’93 NL West race, Dog definitely has hated the Braves.

    Francesa seems to hate all things south of the Mason-Dixon Line, but he’s always been fair about discussing the Braves’ accomplishments. I’ve heard him bitch-slap many a Met fan about them.

  308. 308
    njbravesfan Says:

    I listen to them every day on WFAN, but I despise them and dont know why i listen to them!!!!

    MAD DOG is ok, but he is like Francesas bitch, if he says something Dog jumps, and Francesa thinks he knows everything about everything and it aggravates me, and his whole existence is that he knows bill parcells who has never been on the show!

    I listen to them but they make me mad, they are mean to their callers and they are just clueless about alot especially mikes blind lust for the yankees and love of diet coke

  309. 309
    Adam B Says:

    Despite possibly losing Feliz, we still have a younger and possibly better ace in the system.

    from Peanut on 07/03/07

    The Braves seemingly landed a potential future star on Tuesday, when they signed Julio Teheran to a free-agent contract. Teheran, a 16-year-old right-handed pitcher from Colombia, was recently ranked by Baseball America as the top pitcher in the international free-agent class.

    Although he’s years away, Teheran must be included on any list of prospects. It’s conceivable that he could be up with the big club by 2011. He’d still be only 20 years old.

  310. 310
    csg Says:

    mlb rumors…

    Mets are close to getting Luis Castillo

  311. 311
    Stu Says:


    I already said I’m done complaining. I’m on the Teix bandwagon. Let it go, Hoss.

  312. 312
    Nick Says:

    I thought they already had him.

  313. 313
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Farnsworth’s meltdown against Houston in the playoffs is all I remember about him.

  314. 314
    njbravesfan Says:

    thats all i need to know, funny thing is, i was excited to get him tat year, my friend coaches baseball at a high school down the road, and he played in college and stuff, guy knows his stuff, he said, farnsworth will kill you, and i was like no way and as he had 10 straight saves, i said see billy i told you, he goes, you will see, sure enough he was right, he still makes fun of me for that

  315. 315
    mraver Says:

    Dotel for Thorman, hah!

    I wouldn’t mind adding a bullpen arm, and losing Brandon Jones wouldn’t be too catastrophic, as I don’t think he can play CF. That said, our OF might be getting kinda thin until Cody Johnson and Schaefer show up.

    Hmm. OTOH, we can try platooning Thorman with Diaz in LF next year if we don’t move him.

  316. 316
    JDMaker1 Says:

    Rob, that and the fact that he has a Barry Bonds type demeanor are the only things important to remember about Farns

  317. 317
    Parish Says:

    Gobble/Grienke for Thorman/Davies

  318. 318
    Dan Says:

    6-1 lead in the eighth inning in game four of the 2005 NLDS. Another bullpen meltdown after a outstanding outing from Tim Hudson.

    3YR/18M for Farnsworth. Nice one Cashman.

  319. 319
    Nick Says:

    Because we liked having Ryan Klesko in left field so much that we’d like to revisit it again?

  320. 320
    bfan Says:

    I do agree that Farnsworth doesn’t seem to be a very nice guy. I am kind of over thinking someone is no good because they have a bad play-off game; there wouldn’t be many Braves to like, left, if that was the standard.

  321. 321
    Alex R. Says:

    I would gladly do DOTEL/Greinke for Thorman/Davies.

    Jimmy Gobble? No thanks.

  322. 322
    Smitty Says:


    Klesko could hit

  323. 323
    Alex R. Says:


    No thank you. I hope he ROTS in New York.

  324. 324
    csg Says:

    what do Mahay’s and Dotel’s contracts look like, are both FA’s after this year?

  325. 325
    Nick Says:

    Good point, Smitty.

  326. 326
    Dan Says:

    Mahay is a free agent at year’s end. Dotel has an option for 2008.

  327. 327
    dans Says:

    The Dotel rumer is now being mentioned on Fox Sports Radio updates.

  328. 328
    csg Says:

    how much is the option?

  329. 329
    JoeyT Says:

    Mahay’s a FA after the season. He’s a rental.

  330. 330
    Parish Says:

    Gobble vs. Dotel

    Gobble is a lefty and arguably we still need another one in the pen. Apparently, the Braves have talked to the Royals about these players and Moore is interested in Davies as well as Thorman.

  331. 331
    beedee Says:

    farnsworth and the yankees deserve one another…may they rot in peace

  332. 332
    Dan Says:

    “how much is the option?”

    5.5 million.

  333. 333
    ububba Says:


    I love Mike & the Mad Dog.

    I don’t have to agree with them & could care less what they really think. I just find them very entertaining.

    Francesa is an arrogant know-it-all & Mad Dog plays the “everyman fan,” even though he’s a tennis-playing rich kid from Syosset, Long Island. But their show is just great radio.

    To me, there’s Mike & the Mad Dog and then every other sports-radio team is a distant second.

  334. 334
    BX Says:

    As far as the PTBNL from Oakland, we haven’t gotten anybody or anything yet as far as I know. However, they do have 6 months to agree on what player to send. So at the latest we should know by… October?

  335. 335
    drewdat Says:

    This trade is shambolic.

    I’m in favor of pulling a Pirates (walk-out) when Teixeira doesn’t re-sign.

    Seems like Mahay is somewhat like somebody acquiring “Death” Ray from us last year. Problem solved, if by “problem solved” you mean “problem solidified through season’s end”. Because no solution is a solution, though rarely ever the correct one.

  336. 336
    njbravesfan Says:

    I agree I enjoy listening to the Mike and the Mad Dog Radio program but i dont know why! haha i get so mad at them.

    They are good radio. When i went to college i lived in DC and i worked in congress for 3 years before coming back to teach and coach football, DC sports radio was ATROCIOUS, they hated everyone, Jagr, Jordan, Spurrier, ect. they were terrible, at least mike and the mad dog are entertaining, and they do have great guests, your right

  337. 337
    Smitty Says:

    Any more on Dotel?

  338. 338
    drewdat Says:

    I’ll postface that if we beat the Mets, it’s almost worth it. Nah, decently worth it. I’m just not expecting it. Sure hope we at least get the wildcard…

  339. 339
    Alex R. Says:


    That by far was the most negative post I have seen on this. Keep enjoying that position.

    Most of us are very happy Braves fans today.

  340. 340
    njbravesfan Says:

    If we beat the mets then its all worth it, so they shut their mouths, with their huge payroll and disgusting fans and i hate the mets, i live in new jersey thats all i hear yankees and mets and i hate both of them

  341. 341
    BX Says:

    We should have released Woodward earlier in hopes that the Mets would pick him up instead of Castillo. Go home, Woody!

  342. 342
    Nick Says:

    Yeah, Alex. That was so over the top that I was actually convinced until he followed up that he was joking. Yeesh! Some folks are just impossible to please.

  343. 343
    bfan Says:

    As for Oakland’s PTBNL, I hope it is our own Dan Meyer, who has had a nice revival in AAA this year.

  344. 344
    ububba Says:

    Sometimes you just gotta roll that dice & go for the gusto.

    I don’t lose any sleep over Macay McBride, Andy Marte, Adam Wainright or anyone we’ve traded. They’re like ex-girlfriends—once they’re gone, they’re gone.


  345. 345
    Nick Says:

    Nice thought, bfan, but do you really think Oakland would give us a player with any type of potential whatsoever for a player that they then flipped again in two days? I’m guessing we get cash.

  346. 346
    Alex R. Says:

    Very simply, Woodward needs to be destroyed.

    Even if we don’t beat the Mets this year, gee, I am just appreciate we have a GM that will have the guts to go out & get a star player and give us that chance.

    As Jim Carrey once famously said in “Dumb and Dumber”, “so you’re SAYING there’s a chance!” That’s all I asked and we have that shot now.

    Not to mention the psych out we’ve given the Mets and Phillies players and fans by reminding them that we’re not going ANYWHERE and plan on sticking around to open a can of whoop ass on those bastards.

  347. 347
    csg Says:

    fantasy question;

    would you start Blanton who pitches against Det and LAA this week, or would you start Dave Bush against NYM. All games are home games for the pitchers

  348. 348
    Alex R. Says:

    I live for the opportunity for our boys to tell “J-Roll” to shut the hell up and kick some Philly ass.

  349. 349
    JoeyT Says:

    I wouldn’t start anybody against Det and LAA. That’s begging for a bad week.

  350. 350
    Stu Says:

    Good thing you latched onto the Braves and not the Expos as a kid, ububba.


    Come on, dude, it’s ok for people to have different opinions/reactions. No need to try to single anyone out. I’m sure it’s nothing personal.

  351. 351
    csg Says:

    yeah, but Det has lost like 7 of their last 8 or something like that. Blanton has been solid at home and against LAA.

    Bush has been about avg over the last few weeks. I dont know

  352. 352
    ububba Says:

    C’est vrai.

  353. 353
    Parish Says:


    Supposedly Beltran is injured, but I don’t know for how long.

  354. 354
    Alex R. Says:


    I get singled out all the time but I can live with it :-)

    That aside, it was pretty freaking negative.

    All any of us are asking (and I used you as the example in a good way) is that even if you don’t love all the prospects we ghave yup, give the deal a chance and just be happy that our GM went out & got this team a superstar.

    That’s all.

  355. 355
    Zach Says:

    I’d say Bush although balls have been flying out of that stadium at an alarming pace.

  356. 356
    csg Says:

    might just bench both

  357. 357
    Frank Says:

    I don’t see Royals taking the King of Pop for Dotel. Besides the obvious–Thorman hits himself on the head more often than he hits the ball–didn’t they get a hot 1B prospect (Ryan Sheehy or something like that) from the Rockies last year?

  358. 358
    Murphy3Ever Says:

    i’m elated over getting tex

    but dotel seems to be an injury waiting to happen. maybe he could make it the rest of the year and then get flipped. dunno. but even under normal usage i think dotel’s arm might fall off. IF he holds up the whole year, then it sounds good to me.

  359. 359
    JoeyT Says:

    Shealy did not work out.

    Thorman is a natural fit for their needs, and a young 1B with power and upside is good value for a 33 year old RP coming off arm surgery.

  360. 360
    Stu Says:

    But nobody HAS to be happy with it. And if they aren’t, it doesn’t affect whether we can be. We won’t know who’s “right” until the end of this season and years down the road, anyway.

  361. 361
    Dan Says:

    The rumor on the Royals’ blogs are Scott Thorman and Manny Acosta for Octavio Dotel.

  362. 362
    Zach Says:

    That sounds about right to me. Acosta looks good in Richmond but there are several relievers in our system that I like better than him so it doesn’t hurt us that much. I’d take Devine, Ascanio, Startup, and Stockman over him right now.

  363. 363
    Nick Says:

    Apparently that Lohse trade is official now.

  364. 364
    Stu Says:

    Agreed, Zach.

  365. 365
    JoeyT Says:

    Acosta’s gone 54 innings this year without a HR allowed?

  366. 366
    King Diamond Says:

    Dan, What’s the consensus on the Royals blogs? Are they excited about the Power of Thor?

  367. 367
    JoeyT Says:

    Acosta fits the Royals profile. They’ve had great success this year teaching controlto pitchers who have previously had problems in that area. (Meche, De La Rosa). Acosta doesn’t give up HR and he strikes guys out. If they can fix him, too, he’d be a perfect fit.

  368. 368
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    From Heyman. This, I don’t think I like as well:

    The Braves, fresh off their trade to land Mark Teixeira, are in serious talks to acquire Octavio Dotel from the Royals, has confirmed.

    Kansas City stands to receive shortstop Brent Lillibridge in return. The 22-year-old prospect is batting .283 with five home runs and 20 RBIs for Class AAA Richmond.

  369. 369
    Smitty Says:

    Are there Royal fans and do they really have a blog? It is called Rebuilding:the 20 year project?

  370. 370
    Dan Says:

    No. In fact they’re saying stuff like:

    “Dayton Claus has become the Grinch” and “this is the best we can do?”.

  371. 371
    King Diamond Says:

    Brent Lillibridge for Dotel? Eh…don’t like that nearly so much…please let it be Thor…

  372. 372
    braves14 Says:

    367 — I do not like that at all.

  373. 373
    landogarner Says:

    WTF Stu? You’re not allowed to make posts from the beach while the rest of us are stuck in offices without windows…. That makes me a saaaaaddddd panda.

  374. 374
    Stu Says:

    That would indeed be terrible.

  375. 375
    Smitty Says:

    All things Royal. They talk about Tony Pena and think back about George Brett. This discuss all the ‘prosepcts” they want to hold on to forever.

  376. 376
    csg Says:

    isnt Lillibridge suppose to be an over-hyped prospect who strikes out a ton? But, that is giving up our two best SS prospects. They must really be counting on Escobar and Johnson for the next few years.

  377. 377
    Stu Says:

    And Pete Orr.

  378. 378
    drewdat Says:

    I’ll throw in some rationale.

    I could care less where a player is from, etc. Care nothing about the GT angle, and have at times considered having irrational favoritism for, say, Canadians just to counteract the over-the-top GA love. Problem is, all of the Canadians we have are/were hell-bent on destroying our team. I’ll figure something out.

    Teixeira has a lifetime .850ish OPS away from Ameriquest Ballpark at Arlington Dubya Field. Not a direct translation to overall stats for us, of course, but if he puts up an .850, I’ll be pissed.

    Not all activity is good activity, not all good moves are good moves at a later date, etc. I feel like this move is somewhat questionable to begin with because of all the trading chips we just blew/used. When it comes after the team has blown a few games and put itself against a wall (we need something like a projected 34-22 for the WC), you begin to wonder, too late? So I think the timing of the deal is certainly off, due of course to Texas, but at some point, you just have to walk away. I think that time was probably before we lost the series to SF, but I can certainly see how others would think differently. Several teams to pass now, though, but not as bad as last year.

    Seems like we probably had the price driven up on us, too. From here, it looks like our best player prospect (Salty), our highest ceiling player prospect (Elvis), our best pitching prospect (Harrison), and perhaps our maybe highest ceiling pitching prospect (Feliz). I think all are Top 150 guys or close. Of course, we haven’t really had a tolerable pitching prospect since Millwood, were wasting Salty, etc. but in principle, it seems steep. Especially if Teixeira hits closer to his road averages than the collective conscious’s ideal of his hitting ability, which seems to border on him consistently winning 1v9 games against the All-Star teams.

    Selling Mahay a little short, I guess. Still, do you see him being any more valuable/consistent than Paronto/Yates (maybe mix some of Yates’s outings up so you get a more consistent averageness)? I really don’t. And we likely gave up one of those 4 prospects just for him. What a special guy!

    I can see some nobility in going for it (though we still don’t have a 3rd starter, while we’re thinking playoffs). I can see why people are excited about getting Teixeira (even if he seems to be a tad overrated of late. No savior, the rest of the Braves team has to play like they belong in the playoffs too). I just think this trade seriously mortgages maybe 09-who knows?. Our FO hates FA’s (according to McGuirk), so it would seem we’re pretty much tied to (currently exorbitant) trades and prospects to improve our team (so mostly prospects). About half the prospects just left town. Either we back off that stance on FA’s (which aren’t getting any cheaper) or we’re looking a little thin with no serious replacements for Smoltz, Chipper, or Andruw in sight.

  379. 379
    Smitty Says:

    I wonder what we could get for Orr

  380. 380
    Dan Says:

    Giving up Andrus and Lillibridge on the same day is not wise. That leaves just Escobar, and coming into the season Escobar was considered the most inferior of the “big three” Braves’ minor league shortstops.

  381. 381
    Zach Says:

    The knocks on Lillibridge are that he does strike out a lot and doesn’t hit for a lot of power. His game seems to resember David Eckstein with more speed.

  382. 382
    JoshQ Says:

    At the beginning of the season I would have said, “Wow we just got Gonzo and Dotel for Adam Freakin LaRoche.” Now I’m not so sure. This would be putting all your eggs in the Escobar basket and that kind of freaks me out.

  383. 383
    Murphy3Ever Says:

    since it’s trade day…. how about some other news?

    looks like the deal to send garnett to boston has been done.

    i know that doesn’t concern us much, but big news nonetheless

  384. 384
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    Orr = Bucket of sunflower seeds

  385. 385
    Alex R. Says:

    A half heaten hot dog and a bag of fritos?

  386. 386
    ububba Says:

    Orr for a bag of pucks.

  387. 387
    csg Says:

    JS might be just clearing out some more room for JS Jr. Do you think our next GM cuts JS Jr on his 1st day?

  388. 388
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    Woodward on the other hand, is probably a whole pack of Hubba Bubba.

  389. 389
    JoshQ Says:

    I’d say it would be an amazing deal if I could trade Orr for one of those $25 all you can eat seats at turner.

  390. 390
    Alex R. Says:

    Also, another deal has been finalized:

    David Stern has traded NBA Referees Tim Donaghy & Joey Crawford to the NFL & Roger Goodell for Michael Vick and Adam ‘Pacman’ Jones.

    Stern & Goodell agreed to trade eachother their problems and called it a “win-win” scenario.

    Selig was reportedly upset because neither of them agree to take Bonds Home Run chase or the clear.

  391. 391
    Dan Says:

    I like local players. Something about Francoeur, Davies, McCann, Boyer, James, Heyward, McBride (when he was here), Harris and whoever I’m forgetting all being from the state of Georgia just seems right.

    Teixeira is from Maryland however.

  392. 392
    Parish Says:

    @381 and Jamie Romak.

  393. 393
    Alex R. Says:

    Oceanside, I don’t think ububba should be traded for Woodward. I think we’d all rather have ububba.

  394. 394
    Oceanside Mike Says:

    I agree. We should hold out for more if we are trading ububba.

  395. 395
    ken oberkfell Says:

    Royals talking to Braves about trading Dotel for pitcher Kyle Davies
    The Kansas City Star
    MINNEAPOLIS | The Royals appeared to ready to trade veteran closer Octavio Dotel to the Atlanta Braves on Monday afternoon for right-handed starter Kyle Davies.

    Neither club has yet offered official confirmation, although several sources indicated a deal was tentatively in place.

    “It’s inappropriate for me to comment on any deal that may or may not happen,” Royals general manager Dayton Moore said. “When and if there is a deal, we’ll make an announcement.”

    The holdup appears to be on the Braves’ end and concerns their ability to work out final details on a trade earlier in the day in which they acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay from the Rangers for catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop Elvis Andrus and two pitching prospects.

    The non-waiver trading deadline is 3 p.m. Tuesday. The Royals continue to discuss trade possibilities with other club in case talks break down with the Braves.

    The Dodgers, Indians and Mariners have strongly pursued Dotel, who entered Monday’s series opener against the Twins at 2-1 with a 3.91 ERA and 11 saves in 14 opportunities since returning May 22 from the disabled list.

    Davies, 23, has spent parts of the last three seasons in the Braves’ rotation but has yet to reach their projection of a front-line starter. He was demoted recently to Class AAA Richmond after going 4-8 with a 5.76 ERA in 17 starts.

    Davies was the Braves’ fourth-round pick in 2001 as a 17-year-old and reached the majors in 2005. He is a combined 14-21 with a 6.15 ERA in 52 games, including 45 starts, in parts of three seasons.

  396. 396
    Alex R. Says:

    I’m with Dan. I am from Savannah originally so it doesn’t bother me one bit to see home grown talent or players that grew up rooting for the Braves.

    Why do you think we were able to get McCann to sign a below market deal?

  397. 397
    JoeyT Says:

    I’m so curious about that Dotel trade, now.

    1) Is it for real? It sounds for real.

    2) Is it for Thorman/Acosta, Lillibridge, or some other package? Honetly, Thorman/Acosta makes the most sense.

  398. 398
    Murphy3Ever Says:

    390 — i read somehwere that he wanted to play for the O’s too. i can’t confirm that though. here’s to hoping he really likes playing for the braves and realizes that playing for the O’s would be a mistake as long as angelos owns the team. heh heh

  399. 399
    ububba Says:

    I hate to break the news, but I have a no-trade clause.

  400. 400
    Coz Says:

    Personally, I say we flip Mahay with Prado and Davies to Pittsburgh for Marte and your choice of Snell or Gorz.

  401. 401
    Alex R. Says:


    I also think this year you qualified as a 10-5 man?

  402. 402
    Stu Says:

    Both like hockey too much.

    And Lillibridge is Eckstein + power + speed + defense. Please don’t trade him on the same day Andrus goes—my heart may actually break.

    I thought Tony’s Yunel-love was extreme, but it looks as though JS may share it.

  403. 403
    Brian J. Says:

    Joey, if a first baseman who wants to be Dave Kingman is their idea of a natural fit, they’re welcome to him.

  404. 404
    Dan Says:

    Just to drive Mac insane:

    Is Glavine last of the 300-games winners?

  405. 405
    Matt B Says:

    From the Kansas City Star: [}

    Royals talking to Braves about trading Dotel for pitcher Kyle Davies By BOB DUTTON The Kansas City Star MINNEAPOLIS | The Royals appeared to ready to trade veteran closer Octavio Dotel to the Atlanta Braves on Monday afternoon for right-handed starter Kyle Davies.

    Neither club has yet offered official confirmation, although several sources indicated a deal was tentatively in place.

    “It’s inappropriate for me to comment on any deal that may or may not happen,” Royals general manager Dayton Moore said. “When and if there is a deal, we’ll make an announcement.”

    The holdup appears to be on the Braves’ end and concerns their ability to work out final details on a trade earlier in the day in which they acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay from the Rangers for catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop Elvis Andrus and two pitching prospects.

    The non-waiver trading deadline is 3 p.m. Tuesday. The Royals continue to discuss trade possibilities with other club in case talks break down with the Braves.

    The Dodgers, Indians and Mariners have strongly pursued Dotel, who entered Monday’s series opener against the Twins at 2-1 with a 3.91 ERA and 11 saves in 14 opportunities since returning May 22 from the disabled list.

    Davies, 23, has spent parts of the last three seasons in the Braves’ rotation but has yet to reach their projection of a front-line starter. He was demoted recently to Class AAA Richmond after going 4-8 with a 5.76 ERA in 17 starts.

    Davies was the Braves’ fourth-round pick in 2001 as a 17-year-old and reached the majors in 2005. He is a combined 14-21 with a 6.15 ERA in 52 games, including 45 starts, in parts of three seasons.

  406. 406
    drewdat Says:

    I agree that it doesn’t bother me that a guy has local connections, and in some cases (draft especially) it makes sense (not feeling confident with Boras looming over, though).

    But rest assured, I’ll be rooting for Mark Davis every step of the way. (Sorry.)

  407. 407
    JoeyT Says:

    KC Star is reporting Davies:

  408. 408
    JoshQ Says:

    Maybe Tony is JS?!?!

  409. 409
    JoeyT Says:

    MattB, it’s generally not a good idea to copy-paste articles for copyright reasons.

  410. 410
    Coz Says:

    Hmmm…I’m not sure I like sending Davies for Dotel. Unless JS is working to use Thorman (somehow) in a deal for a starter, I think Davies is needed at least to get another starter.

  411. 411
    Zach Says:

    Lillibridge has slugged .387 in Mississippi and .413 in Richmond so I would hardly call him Eckstein + power.

  412. 412
    Coz Says:

    JoeyT – as long as they are credited and online somewhere, there’s no copyright issue, as far as I see. That’s kind of how blogs work.

  413. 413
    Murphy3Ever Says:

    davies has killed us, but i’m one of the few that thinks he could still be ok …

  414. 414
    Stu Says:

    You don’t think he has more power than Eckstein? Well, I respectfully disagree.

  415. 415
    JoeyT Says:

    You can excerpt or summarize but not reproduce an entire article without permission.

  416. 416
    Stu Says:

    Although he also strikes out a ton and Eckstein never does.

    He’s a very good prospect, IMO.

  417. 417
    Zach Says:

    Well yeah he has more power than Eckstein but I just don’t think it’s enough to be considered a strength.

  418. 418
    Tennessee Brave Says:

    He didn’t reproduce an article, he provided a link to reach it.

  419. 419
    Parish Says:

    Gagne to BoSox for Delcarmen, Breslow, another player and cash.

  420. 420
    Alex R. Says:

    I am with Murphy. Davies looks like one of many pitchers we touted that just doesn’t have that Major League confidence.

    The game where he couldn’t even record an out may have been the last straw.

    And c’mon, if Davies is going to Kansas City, it’s not like he’s even in a position to come back & haunt us.

  421. 421
    Tennessee Brave Says:

    Sorry, looks like he DID copy the whole article. My bad.

  422. 422
    Parish Says:

    @417 – may be false.

  423. 423
    Stu Says:

    I didn’t call it a strength. I was extending the comparison to Eckstein.

  424. 424
    Coz Says:

    Noticed that too. I thought that was the excerpt, it was so short.

    Alex – I hear you. But don’t you think if we are to trade for a starter, the other team might want one in return? It is conceivable that other GM’s might want Davies (especially if KC does.)

  425. 425
    Alex R. Says:

    By the way,l I know this may have been mentioned before, but I had the pleasure of meeting Bill Robinson when he was a Mets coach in 1985 (and I was 10 and a little chubby bastard) and he was a real gentleman. Really nice guy.

    Along with the Bill Walsh news, very sad, though I realize Robinson wasn’t nearly as famous.

  426. 426
    Stu Says:


    He’ll haunt us if he’s good and we end up having use for a good starter.

  427. 427
    Murphy3Ever Says:

    if kc really wants to deal.. i’d throw in davies for greinke :)

    give davies time and i think he’d be ok, but i guess i’d be ok dealing him for a decent SP

  428. 428
    Alex R. Says:


    You’d always like to get more, I agree, it’s possible we maybe get more but Davies has been SO BAD, that to get a high quality relief pitcher for a guy who looks like he doesn’t belong in the Majors, is hard to pass up.

    But I would have preferred to deal Thorman, who carries even less value.

  429. 429
    Zach Says:

    I see what you’re saying. It just sounded like you were saying he’s David Eckstein with power.

  430. 430
    drewdat Says:

    Not a big Dotel fan either. Couldn’t care much less about Davies, though.

    ERA 3.91 | WHIP 1.52

    Yeah, I’ll have that?…

  431. 431
    Hate King Says:

    I’m not that big on Dotel, his WHIP is awfully high, but so is Kyle’s.

  432. 432
    Parish Says:

    For Dotel, it looks like it is Davies +.

    It is hard to imagine we would get Dotel for only Thorman when you consider the other teams in the hunt for him.

  433. 433
    'Rissa Says:

    Wow, busy day today with trades and rumors of more trades. I’m glad the Teixeira deal finally got done, and, while I don’t know about having to give up four prospects, at least we got a reliever too.

    As far as the Lillibridge power debate goes, he might not have much power on a consistant basis, but I was at an R-Braves game a couple of weeks ago and he hit a Grand Slam in the bottom of the ninth to win the game. The ball didnt just clear the fence, either, it went a long way over. It must have carried well over 400 feet.

    This has to be a record number of posts on Braves Journal for an off day.

  434. 434
    Ethan Says:

    @163 called it

  435. 435
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Probably. I guess I’ll start a new post.

  436. 436
    Mac Thomason Says:

    New thread is up because this one is very very long.

  437. 437
    njbravesfan Says:

    How about te new rumor, Braves are openly shopping for Bronson Arroyo?

  438. 438
    njbravesfan Says:

    and i hear now its definatley davies for dotel and its done deal as soon as the other deal goes through….its crazy smells of desperation really

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