Braves Journal, The House That Mac Built

I don’t want them forget Ruth; I just want them to remember me. -Hank Aaron

12 Aug

St. Louis 8, Atlanta 5


Mike Foltynewicz could only go 2 2/3 innings against a streaking Cardinals team, giving up 6 runs on 4 walks and 7 hits. Meanwhile the Braves couldn’t take advantage of Adam Wainwright turning into a pumpkin, only managing to score 1 run off him in 5 innings despite the fact that he was throwing about as hard as some of the top pitchers at Williamsport will next week. Usually it’s the No Name Lefties that stymie the Bravos with the soft stuff, but Wainwright induced double plays in each of the first three innings, including a baases loaded no out DP by Freddie Freeman in the 3rd, to limit the damage to one run.

The Braves threatened to make a game of it in the 6th, with Matt Adams singling in Freddie, followed by Ozzie Albies‘ second career homer to draw to within one. But Rex Brothers gave up two runs in the bottom of the 8th, and the St. Louis pen would give up nothing more.

49 games left, and the Braves are 51-62. They are who we thought they would be. A sub-.500 team with a lot of youth and potential, but not much in the way of results so far.

41 Responses to “St. Louis 8, Atlanta 5”

  1. 1
    coop Says:

    Thank you, Seat Painter.

    Will someone please recap a win? Thanks.

  2. 2
    Td Says:

    I think if the Braves finish about 20 games under 500 Snitker should go. The one thing that has distinguished Snitker teams is inconsistency. Of course they will probably go on a 10 game winning streak soon, which would be typical.

  3. 3
    Rob Cope Says:

    You’d have to go to Phillies Journal for that.

  4. 4
    Ben Emanuele Says:

    Assuming ESPN’s pitch types are correct, Dansby saw mostly fast balls (just one dreaded slider) during his 0 for 4 game last night (he did hit one liner off a fast ball). Does anyone know what type pitches he saw during his stint at Gwinnett?

  5. 5
    Sam Hutcheson Says:

    I’m beginning to doubt the talent level of this team.

  6. 6
    Z in DC Says:

    To my eyes, Snitker should get a year of the Braves as buyers or at least non-sellers. I think he can only get so much buy-in without some support. They were surprisingly okay for most of the year.

    I judge managers on how much they get out of their players. I know the chess moves affect your odds, but they affect the chess pieces (which also affects your odds).

    I’m trying to be patient until we know what we have, and trying not to think too much about whether we can convince Bobby to come back.

  7. 7
    Rusty S. Says:

    In fairness, there are 3 starters on the DL (counting the long forgotten Adonis.) This team certainly wasn’t built to withstand that.

  8. 8
    krussell Says:

    Yeah without a healthy and productive Kemp we’re a bad offense. How often have we had healthy-Kemp? I don’t see how they fix this until 2020.

    I know everyone here loves Inciarte, but he’s not really that good. His OBP depends on his soft-contact falling in at a high rate. There’s no way he’ll ever walk a ton because there’s no reason to pitch him carefully. Unfortunately, LH Albies looks to be about the same.

    It’s still Freeman and a bunch of “meh”.

  9. 9
    krussell Says:

    To be fair, Inciarte certainly isn’t the problem. The problem is that we have like 4 guys in the lineup that you would want to bat 8th.

  10. 10
    Rob Cope Says:

    The problem has been and continues to be the corner outfield spots. In 2017, I’m perfectly fine with the catching tandem, Freddie, Ozzie, Dansby, and Inciarte based on contract and experience. I’m also ok with Teheran, Newcomb, Sims, Folty, and even Dickey in a Weigel-less world. I’m also looking forward to Wisler and Blair in the pen in September to see if they’re worth keeping on the 40-man. But Kakes and Kemp have no business on this roster, and I’m almost convinced the Braves will find a spot on the 40-man for Acuna in September. But this team is going nowhere with no power at 3B, RF, and LF (due to frequent injury). If we don’t add 5-6 (a tall order) primarily through power and defense at 3B/RF/LF, this team goes nowhere.

  11. 11
    coop Says:

    Dansby hasn’t proven he can hit at AAA, let alone MLB. I think he will. He has not yet.

    Camargo has played well at all the infield positions save first, and that one’s in pretty good hands. Both Johan and Albies have limited exposure to big league pitching. I hope they are capable. I’m fine with Swanson at short if and when he demonstrates he’s able to handle the position.

    The outfield corners suck, though I’m fond of the Greek’s demeanor.

  12. 12
    krussell Says:

    @10, Camargo == Danny Santana == Emilio Bonaficio == Jace Peterson == backups. Don’t be fooled by a hot streak. Albies may or may not wind up in that same category. Swanson is currently below that category.

  13. 13
    Z in DC Says:

    Johan is a strong and versatile fielder. He’s a solid enough hitter to have hot streaks.

    That’s a big league player.

  14. 14
    krussell Says:

    A minor league OPS of .700 across 2000 ABs tells me I don’t think he’s likely to be a starter. Some players are late bloomers, I’ll grant you that. I’d rather have other options. Especially for 3B.

  15. 15
    Rob Cope Says:

    I know I’m in the (extreme) minority on this, but how could you possibly evaluate a manager on wins and losses when you’re running Matt Adams in LF and rushing a prospect back up to the majors to play SS when you JUST traded away a perfectly cromulent backup at either position because you’re still in a Rebuild(TM) and re-allocate $6M at a future, undefined moment in time? SSS alert, but Rodriguez has 2 HR in 13 ABs (1.077 OPS) for the Pirates, and it didn’t take a genius to see that with a rushed rehab and no Spring Training, maybe Rodriguez needed more than 47 PAs at the major league level to get his legs under him. Just patently dumb for a FO that continues to be glorified for its trade-making abilities but with so many clear losses on its record.

    With that said, I digress, and I have a question for the learned: if one could quantify such things, would you care to equate Veteran Presents and versatility into a WAR equation? After all, Veteran Presents and versatility clearly have trade value. If not, Manny Ramirez would have been traded a lot easier, Brandon Phillips would have more of his salary paid by Atlanta, and guys like David Ross and David Eckstein wouldn’t get a consensus bump for what they bring to the table para-statline. Grit, hustle, yadda yadda, but the reality is that it has value in the marketplace. So indulge me: should a 3 WAR guy who plays 6 positions get compared as favorably to a guy who is a 3.5 WAR but only plays one position? Does a (hopefully) .5 WAR Markakis get a bump for the Vetaran Presents he brings to the table? After all, this would impact how much cash the Braves would have to eat in a hypothetical trade. It also helps evaluate a trade of Sean Rodriguez.

  16. 16
    coop Says:

    I have no problem with Snit getting another two year contract. As far as presents go, I prefer mine wrapped in production although I do acknowledge the value of experience.

  17. 17
    Adam R Says:

    The Phillies and Marlins paid Francoeur about $1 mil/year. That should tell you if clubhouse leadership = 0.5 WAR.

    (It doesn’t.)

  18. 18
    braves14 Says:

    Fangraphs has Markakis at exactly 0 WAR and hates his defense.

  19. 19
    braves14 Says:

    The Cardinals have their ace going and we have our #5 starting, so I’m not too optimistic about tonight’s game either.

  20. 20
    Z in DC Says:

    Not sure Newcomb isn’t worse than him at this point, so we have that going for us.

    Always fun to see a kid pitch.

  21. 21
    braves14 Says:

    Newcomb is our #3 starter right now behind Folty and Dickey.

  22. 22
    Nick Says:

    I reiterate that this doesn’t get fixed until they finally decide they want a major league team that doesn’t suck. It could be fixed as soon as next year if they decide that, but if they’re waiting for the prospects to “tell them” it’s time to do that (assuming they’ll ever be able to spend money to build an actual major league team again), it’s gonna be awhile yet, if ever.

    Also, it’s very hard to win trades where your primary goal is shedding salary. It’s also very difficult to improve the team doing that.

  23. 23
    carl Says:

    freddie gets that line drive at third that phillips botched… management is sure doing a terrible job putting together a competent defense behind these young pitchers.

  24. 24
    Rob Cope Says:

    I don’t know if Frenchy is the exhaustive conclusion to my question.

  25. 25
    braves14 Says:

    Sims isn’t fooling anyone. Since Folty had a short outing last night he might have to take one for the team.

  26. 26
    Chief Nocahoma Says:

    Sims is AAAA.

  27. 27
    braves14 Says:

    My biggest concern with Sims so far is that he simply isn’t striking anyone out, after always striking out lots of guys in the minors.

  28. 28
    Rob Cope Says:

    @17, @24

    Frenchy, to the opposite of your conclusion, would be an extreme example of Veteran Presents creating value. He was coming off a -.6 WAR season in 2015, and he got $1M. So if you do the $7M/1WAR valuation, and you adjust for his negative value, then his Veteran Presents appears to have been rewarded rather highly. Perhaps you were thinking that he had a positive WAR or at least zero.

  29. 29
    Rob Cope Says:

    I’m really glad Chief Nocahoma won’t be handling the pitching prospects. He’d have sold Tom Glavine off for a bag of magic beans and traded John Smoltz for Chris Carter.

  30. 30
    coop Says:

    Lucas got banged around, but he comported himself well. He will do better.

  31. 31
    Grst Says:

    That was an embarrassingly terrible at-bat from Matt Adams.

  32. 32
    coop Says:


  33. 33
    Adam R Says:

    @28, Yes, I’m assuming GMs saw Francoeur as the epitome of a replacement-level player, and decimal differences are some combination of lucky or unlucky breaks or the vagaries of WAR. I think it works well.

    Re: Markakis, if he has leadership qualities and if that is something teams really do value, then look for a young team in the playoff hunt that needs an OF bench bat. The Twins? The DBacks? Speculating as to whether Joe Mauer or Paul Goldschmidt are good enough “clubhouse guys” or not is not my idea of fun.

  34. 34
    coop Says:

    First time I’ve seen Fried. Impressive stuff.

  35. 35
    coop Says:

    Nice, Dansby. Come on, Danny.

    Santana, you bonehead.

  36. 36
    Nick Says:

    Well, we finally got a BS call that the umpires decided wasn’t “convincing” enough to overturn.

    UPDATE: Seriously, could Danny Santana stop being a dumbass??? Your run doesn’t matter, you idiot!

  37. 37
    Putter Says:

    And there is your slap hitting clean up hitter failing with the game on the line.

  38. 38
    Rob Cope Says:

    Chip During Kakes’ 3rd AB: Markakis can get them within one with one swing of the bat.

    Rob Cope: No he can’t.

    (Markakis hits a long fly ball)

    Mrs. Cope: See, yes he can (Mrs. Cope inexplicably loves Nick Markakis).

    (Markakis flies out to the warning track).

    Rob Cope winks at Mrs. Cope.


  39. 39
    Rob Cope Says:

    Braves are 28th in runs scored in August. 14th in ERA.

  40. 40
    Chief Nocahoma Says:


    With all due respect, I’ve been much more accurate than the wishcasters on BJ…

  41. 41
    blazon Says:


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