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16 Jul

Reds 10, Braves 3

ESPN – Reds vs. Braves Box Score, July 16 2007 – MLB

This has to be it, right? Kyle Davies can’t allow the first five men on base and then get pulled without recording an out and continue to start, can he?

Who am I kidding? We’re stuck with him.

After Davies allowed two hits and three walks to start the game, Bobby summoned the Vulture. Villarreal got out of that mess with no more than Davies’ two runs, but didn’t do very well with his own runners in subsequent innings, allowing three runs in the second and a single run in the third. It was 9-2 after a rare Joey Devine sighting in the fourth led to one more run and Paronto allowed two in the fifth. The only pitcher to do well tonight was Ascanio, who pitched two scoreless innings.

Andruw drove in all the Braves’ runs, two on a third-inning single and one on a seventh-inning groundout. Escobar, auditioning for the inevitable trade to the Reds (just kidding) had three hits.

Four of the Reds’ ten runs were “unearned” as the Braves committed three errors. Just a horrible, dispiriting performance on all levels.

116 Responses to “Reds 10, Braves 3”

  1. 1
    csg Says:

    you should’ve mentioned that were stuck with Thorman also.

    2K’s and an error

    We’ll see plenty of him over the next 6 games unfortunately

  2. 2
    braves14 Says:

    Mac, I dunno if you saw it in the last thread but I have a South Carolina preview finished.

  3. 3
    csg Says:

    you think if Reyes goes 6 respectable innings tomorrow, he stays and Davies goes

  4. 4
    Mac Thomason Says:

    If that’s your real email address, I sent you a WordPress invite.

  5. 5
    Jeff M. Says:

    csg,
    Davies ought to go no matter what. But realistically, he’ll get one more start and parlay that into another two starts. That seems to be his M.O. When he (not the team), but when he most needs a good start to stay, he does so. Then he lets the team down until his job is on the line again.

    In saying this, I’m not stating that he does this purposefully or consciously, but perhaps just the feeling that he’s about to get sent down forces him to pitch better. But when he doesn’t feel that pressure, he doesn’t seem to pitch as well.

    But then again, I’m no psychologist. So what do I know. I just maintain that he’ll get another start. I hope I’m wrong.

  6. 6
    stapler Says:

    Man, that’s pretty bad when the starting pitcher doesn’t even get one out. Whew – and here’s the million dollar question: Fill in the blank — Thorman exists because _______. I can’t come up with an answer,

  7. 7
    stapler Says:

    Actually, despite Davies’s atrocious start, I still dislike Thorman more.

  8. 8
    Dan Says:

    If Reyes does well tomorrow, I have to think and hope Smoltz replaces Davies and not Jo-Jo Reyes.

    On that same day I think Orr’s required ten days in the minors are up. So if Reyes pitches well, I guess Davies and Devine/Ascanio go and Smoltz and Orr come back. Maybe the Braves will surprise and rightly bring up Pena and not Orr.

  9. 9
    Hap Says:

    I was at the game tonight… very depressing, but can anyone who was watching on TV tell me if they showed my foul ball catch? I was in front row Lexus level on the first base side. Caught a foul ball from Chipper and had to lean/stretch over the rail to get to it. High fives all around :-) Unfortunately it was the best part of the game for me :-(

  10. 10
    Kyle B. Says:

    Worst all-around Braves performance of the year? Anyone agree? The Red Sox loss at home that Buddy pitched was ugly, but this game was fugly in every aspect of the game.

  11. 11
    Kyle B. Says:

    Hap – I’m from Ohio and the local FSN affiliate showed you in all your glory. Way to have your glove ready. The Braves should have put you in. You certainly had the loudest appluase of the night from the sound of things.

  12. 12
    Dan Says:

    What inning Hap? I don’t remember it, I stopped watching when it became 5-0.

  13. 13
    ububba Says:

    Padres doing our mercenary work tonight. Wells pitching a gem so far, 2-1 bottom 6th.

  14. 14
    braves14 Says:

    Phillies trail 6-1 in the 6th.

  15. 15
    Chuck G Says:

    Is it just me, or did we break camp with an atrocious number of “_____ delenda ests” this year?

    I keep waiting for Mac to retire the conceit, but then I remember that even with all the deadwood that’s been cleared so far, there seems to be an inexhaustible supply of more. Langerhans, Redman, Orr, Prado, Woodward, McBride, Davies, Zombie Orr in a couple days… this is unusually excessive, no?

  16. 16
    beedee Says:

    chuck, if there is one thing the braves are good for, it’s carrying more than a few whipping boys. it’s all about the equal distribution of suck.

  17. 17
    braves14 Says:

    Maybe if Davies goes down to Richmond, Guy Hansen can do something with him.

  18. 18
    beedee Says:

    ububba,
    did you get to catch any shows while you were out west?

  19. 19
    Robert Says:

    Reyes didn’t do so hot his first time out, maybe he’s more of an R&B guy. I know when I think music and JoJo, I think Jodeci.

    A little “Come And Talk To Me” for tomorrow’s game thread might do the trick.

    And yes, I’m purposely not talk about tonight’s game. What a debacle.

  20. 20
    ububba Says:

    beedee,
    I did, but maybe not the kind of gigs most folks like. I was out there for a dance-club event—a DJ named D:Fuse playing at Arena. (My mag was sponsoring the thing.)

    Dunno if you ever saw the “Entourage” episode where Ari goes to the gay club to “rescue” Lloyd from a lecherous client, but that’s the club I went to. (FWIW, it was a straight gig the night I was there.) It was more work than fun, to be honest.

    On Sunday, however, I had a spectacular day. After seeeing a friend DJ at a beachside restaurant/bar in Malibu, I went to a place I always wanted to visit: The Hollywood Bowl. I saw Groove Armada open for Café Tacuba.

    Unfortunately, I had to catch the red-eye back from LAX, so I missed Café Tacuba, but Groove Armada was great & the crowd was unbelievable. A very memorable show.

  21. 21
    beedee Says:

    sweet, groove armada is quite tasty…i guess work is work, but it sounds like it could a lot worse.

  22. 22
    Sam Says:

    I’m glad I didn’t see much. Watched the last inning, but that was it.

    I’m praying for Jo-Jo Reyes to do well.

  23. 23
    ububba Says:

    beedee,

    It beats covering city-council meetings.

  24. 24
    ububba Says:

    Padres up 3-1 on the Mets, going to bottom of the 8th.

  25. 25
    ububba Says:

    Cameron HR, 4-1. Looks pretty safe for Hoffman.

  26. 26
    ermoore Says:

    Hap,
    I was at the game also tonight, so I don’t know if it was on TV, but it was pretty outstanding live. Way to go!

    Also, I’ve been on vacation for the last couple of weeks and have been lucky just to catch the scores, can someone answer some questions for me?

    1) Where is Pete Orr? I’m not complaining, I just want to know.

    2) Who got injured that Ascanio, Devine, and Reyes were called up?

    3) Is Kelly Johnson playing that badly or does Bobby just have a little crush on Yunel?

    4) Why was Reyes pinch-hitting tonight?

    5) I dislike Woodward much more than Davies or Thorman. They’re at least real Braves and not a Mets reject/infiltrator.

  27. 27
    Sam Says:

    1) Richmond
    2) A combo of Smoltz, Gonzalez and Hampton
    3) He has a man-crush on Yunel, I’m certain of it.
    4) Hell if I know.
    5) Hear hear. Woodward delenda est.

  28. 28
    Sam Says:

    2) Actually, I think Orr was sent down to bring up a pitcher.

  29. 29
    braves14 Says:

    Ascanio is up because Ledezma is stuck out of the country.

  30. 30
    Sam Says:

    Oooooooooooooooooh, that’s right.

  31. 31
    beedee Says:

    woo, the padres and the LA braves won tonight.

  32. 32
    urlhix Says:

    I’m catching some of the replay (long, long, long day) and it strikes me how much Paronto has picked up from Wickman. Over time it will probably be a good thing for Chad.

    Also, I was at the Sunday game and I hope Buddy looked as good on teevee as he did in concert. Such a fun pitcher to watch.

    The other fun thing was, after the game, finding myself walking right behind Mark Richt, in a personalized Braves jersey, with what looked like the entire coaching staff. It was like following the Queen, lots of waving, pointing and thank you’s. I couldn’t resist reminding them to “go get ‘em this fall, boys.”

    Of course it’s all fun when you win. As bad as tonight was I think we’ll still take the series. And, as someone mentioned over the break, 5 of 6 is a reasonable expectation versus the Pirates and Reds.

  33. 33
    ububba Says:

    url,

    I always figured you were a Bama person.

  34. 34
    Dan Says:

    ESPN says Davies out of starting rotation. He’s supposedly being moved to the bullpen.

  35. 35
    david15 Says:

    What the hell is moving him to the pen going to do? It isn’t like that helped the last time they tried it.

  36. 36
    Jeremy Says:

    From Jeff Schultz’s column at the AJC:

    Asked later if Davies had an injury, Cox said, “Just home plate.”

    Classic.

  37. 37
    kc Says:

    There is no reason to trust anything ESPN says. The entire organization and everyone of us here know Kyle can’t pitch out of the bullpen. If Kyle is not in the rotation, he is either traded or heading to Richmond…and I can’t imagine if anyone would take Kyle at this moment…maybe Dayton will take him and Thorman off our hands?! What a dream!!!

  38. 38
    Stephen Says:

    I am glad that I missed the game….Davies has got to go and go now. The fact of the matter is that despite a nice start to his career Davies has been consistently terrible:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/davieky01.shtml

    In 2006 and 2007 Davies has now about 160 inings with an ERA well over 6.00. That is, his track record is now well established. There is no reason to believe that he will get any better pitching in Atlanta so he should be sent to Richmond and told to work on his command.

    We might as well bring up Kevin Barry and let him pitch instead of Davies. We would be no worse off and maybe a little better.

    With some luck our rotation might look like: Smoltz, Hudson, James, Carlyle, and Reyes. If not Reyes, then Kevin Barry or even Parr. Both Parr and Reyes have eclipsed Harrison this year.

    Jose Contreras is looking better all the time….

  39. 39
    Stephen Says:

    Let me be hopeful here: if Orr can go to Richmond…Davies can go…

  40. 40
    kc Says:

    Just by the fact that the Braves are considering bringing Julio back, it means Woodward’s days as a Brave is counting down, right?! Or am I dreaming?!

    Stephen, I read from somewhere that Harrison still needs to further work on his curveballs before being considered as a finished product. RIght now, Harrison has good command on only his fastballs and changeups.

  41. 41
    Stephen Says:

    Yeah–I read that as well and his numbers bear out the fact that he is basically the same pitcher he was a year ago. I think that at this point Reyes, Smith and possibly Parr are ahead of him.

    I would get rid of Woodward before Thorman…

  42. 42
    kc Says:

    With Escobar’s ability to play short and third (I think he can’t play second base to be honest), there is no reason to keep Woodward.

  43. 43
    Maverick Says:

    Can you Believe this i was up by about 12 or so points in my Roto fantasy team till suddenly this guy comes outta no where and takes the lead then i realize he made a trade from April 9th- this is the trade he give away, Julio Lugo, Raul Ibanez, Nick Markakis, Josh Barfield, Chad Tracy, Placido Polanco, Joel Zumaya, Derek Lowe, Kelvim Escobar and Bartolo Colon…In return he gets Mark Teixeira, Robinson Cano, Alex Rodriguez, Andruw Jones, Bobby Abreu, Aaron Harang, Chris Young, Ryan Dempster, Ervin Santana and Tom Glavine. Sorry i just had to get that off my Chest tried to veto the trade but not enough ppl noticed it i guess well im only behind by a Point wish me luck lol.

  44. 44
    Maverick Says:

    Livingston Had 4 hits for the Reds Yesterday thats a damn shame.

  45. 45
    Maverick Says:

    Ian Snell is looking good at this point after seeing this DAvies outing but i dont think the Pirates would give him up for Salty who is playing similar to Ryan Doumit who is hitting .304 7hr 24rbi 23runs 1sb and can also play in the outfield just doesnt make any sense… he is 4 yrs older than salty. any other rumors???

  46. 46
    Sam Says:

    Stephen, can I slap you to your senses if you say that Jose Contreras is looking good? You must be delerious.

  47. 47
    Stephen Says:

    Sam–I posted Contreras’ numbers yesterday; the combination of Smoltz’s shoulder and Davies performance yesterday makes even a bad inning eater begin to look good. He might pitch a bit better with the Braves and maybe he could be obtained at a bargain price.

    I would hate to see us have to part with Salty to fix the back end of our rotation….

  48. 48
    Kenny Says:

    What an ugly game. I am still very interested in these Ian Snell rumors. Does anyone think they are true? It seems to me the Pirates would be stupid to trade such quality young starting pitching.

    The only nice thing was seeing Devine pitch. I know he gave up two hits and a run, but he has some truly outstanding stuff. His slider had a lot of bite on it.

  49. 49
    Marc Schneider Says:

    I can’t defend Davies anymore; he’s awful. For Bobby to embarrass a pitcher by taking him out like that means that he is totally fed up. I think Kyle is toast as soon as they find someone to replace him. I think a trade is more and more likely.

  50. 50
    W.C. Says:

    Not to blame anyone else for the way we played last night, but what about Angel Hernandez(the home plate umpire)? There are some awful, terrible, pathetic umpires in the league, but last night was one of the worst jobs I’ve seen this year. His strike zone was so inconsistent. He has no clue about what is a strike or a ball.

  51. 51
    JoshQ Says:

    Maverick, it sounds like something fishy was going on in your RotoLeague.

    As for last night, well at least there is today.

  52. 52
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    On other teams in the league, I find it hilarious that the Cubs traded for Jason Kendall. He is just such a Cub player–scrappy white guy that still LOOKS like a player and talks like one, but sucks total ass now. Now after I say that watch him go out and hit .330/.400/.450 the rest of the year.

    I’m so glad I went to a minor league game rather than watch the shitshow that was the Braves last night. Short season A ball… woopie.

  53. 53
    Kenny Says:

    #50 I agree with you. I think the ump knew the game was over, and was trying to get out of there as soon as possible. That called third strike of Francouer was terrible. Of course every Braves fan should know the fickleness of Angel Hernandez.

  54. 54
    Tony Says:

    Wow…what a total disaster.

    What did the bullpen do over the allstar break? Did they pitch in some games we don’t know about? Oscar did the same thing in Fla a couple of weeks ago…getting old.

    I don’t know but is anyone else concern about the lack of power and run production coming from our leftfielders? Diaz has 4 hr/10 doubles and only 20RBI…he has 54 damn singles…geez

    I guess it wouldn’t be an issue if we had a 1st baseman putting up numbers….

    Frenchy cannot be this slow…sure that was bad call on the strikeout, but if he wasn’t swinging at the 1st pitch all the time maybe he would have been in that hole. Why has he reverted to this 1st pitch swinging mentality? It is maddening. He must think his name is Vlad Guerrero…

  55. 55
    csg Says:

    yep Hernandez sucks, whats worse about our team right now is that Reyes might actually be our best hitter of the bench over Woodward and Thorman. I really hope Bobby doesnt start Thorman 5 out of the next 6 games.

    I guess Villareal will get Davies next start. Davies going to the pen will just happen until Smoltz comes back. He’ll get sent down and hopefully Pena will get the call. Also look for Ledezma to be back soon and Ascanio and Devine will go back

  56. 56
    beedee Says:

    i’m starting to think kelly is back in bobby’s doghouse.

    jeremy,
    thanks for the cox quote, it gives hope.

  57. 57
    mraver Says:

    Davies’s problems are two-fold:

    Number one, he’s been horribly inconsistant this year and, lately, just horrible. Number two is that Bobby hasn’t exactly instilled a lot of confidence in him. I don’t even know why they bothered starting him the last couple outings if Cox was going to have that short of a leash. My guess is that Cox is done with the kid and JS is insisting we keep going with him b/c there are no other options.

    It’d be a shame to trade him, because he’s got potential to be a decent starter, but right now we’d get just about nothing for him.

    I still wish he’d started the season in AAA. Stupid Lance Cormier and his stupid injury. (Losing his starting job in ST and then starting anyways couldn’t have been a major confidence booster for the kid, either. Things just haven’t worked out for him this year.)

    Anyhow, let’s go, JoJo, and I really hope Cox lets him try to pitch through it if he gets in a rough situation early; we just can’t keep having our ‘pen throw 7 (or 9!) innings a game.

  58. 58
    Tony Says:

    The thing about Davies…is he is only 23y/o. I don’t think you can give up one him completely. Bobby knows he may manage only one more year, so he is trying to do everything he can to win now.

    I don’t think KJ is Bobby’s doghouse, I just think Bobby really likes what Escobar does at the plate against lefthanders.

  59. 59
    Another Alex R. Says:

    Hey, if I can change, and you can change… Kyle Davies can change.

    Merry Christmas, kid.

  60. 60
    csg Says:

    Yep I think Bobby is fine with both KJ and Escobar. Both are hitting over .300 in the platoon and Escobar is being showcased. Since the platoon started, I didnt want it, but the team has played a whole lot better.

    My worries are that Harris has cooled off and with him and Thorman struggling we have to eliminate one of those platoons. Harris should stay in a platoon with Diaz, his speed and defense make up for his poor hitting of late. Thorman really has no value, the league has learned to throw him nothing but changeups and curve balls. He’ll be below the mendoza after these next 5 starts.

  61. 61
    Stephen Says:

    Many of us thought that Davies belonged at Richmond at the start of the year, but as mraver suggests circumstances dictated otherwise.

    Davies is starting to remind me of Rob Bell, who tore through the Braves system and became part of deal for Bret Boone and Remlinger. Bell looked like a great prospect, but he never really got better:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bellro01.shtml

    In fact, looking at the numbers Davies would do well to become Rob Bell.

    I agree with Marc that a trade is likely: I would not be surprised if JS is showcasing Ascanio for that purpose….

  62. 62
    Tony Says:

    Wow…the Cubs are a game behind the Braves in the wild card chase. With Zambrano and 3 lefties, they are sort of scary.

    Will the Braves please put the Mutt out of their misery and runaway with this thing…obviously they don’t want it. Man Beltran is looking like an old 30 y/o…well I can’t talk, we had AJ.

  63. 63
    Another Alex R. Says:

    Hey, you know who’s looking like an old 30? Troy Glaus.

    He’s on the trading block and as fragile as Chipper Jones, but 5 years younger.

  64. 64
    Hate King Says:

    I have noticed, maybe others have too, that Cox has been letting the starting pitcher for the next game get a pinch hit opportunity in meaningless games. Reyes pinch hit for Villarreal last night in a blow out situation and James did the same the day before his last start. James’ at bat came with a big lead. Either way I like Cox getting the starter for the next game an at bat in a game situation. It probably doesn’t help THAT much, but it is still a nice move nonetheless.

  65. 65
    Hate King Says:

    Isn’t Beltran a couple of days older than Druw?

  66. 66
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Though Andruw debuted more than two years before, has 150 more homers, 250 or so more hits, and over 450 more games played, he and Carlos Beltran were born just one day apart in 1977.

  67. 67
    Mac Thomason Says:

    I started writing that before HK’s post. Beltran is one day younger.

  68. 68
    csg Says:

    todays rumors..

    “One scout said his understanding was that White Sox GM Ken Williams would like to move, in order of preference, Jose Contreras, Javier Vazquez and Jon Garland. The scout’s order of preference was the exact reverse of that, partly because Garland has only one more year remaining on his contract. The scout believed there was only lukewarm interest in outfielder Jermaine Dye. ”

    Garland is having shoulder issues again

    “In talking to multiple executives Monday, the Rockies will have difficulty finding a trade partner unless the market improves or the prices go down. The San Francisco Giants and Chicago White Sox are asking for outrageous returns for second-tier starters Matt Morris and Jose Contreras because so few starters are currently available.”

  69. 69
    csg Says:

    as for Cox using the pitchers in PH situations, dont read much into it. Its because our bench is short right now with carrying 13 pitchers. One problem is he might actually like his chances with James and Jo Jo over Woodward and Thorman right now

  70. 70
    bfan Says:

    We have a really bad talent allocation right now: we are platooning a second baseman who is second in the NL second baseman (behind only MVP candidate Chase Utley) in OPS, with aguy hitting well over .300 and playing lights-out in the field.

    I like them both and wish they could both be a part of the Braves future, as I think they are both well above average MLB players for their position, but if the point is to win this year, while the Jones’ are here and young enough to play, then I hope we can pull something off, soon.

  71. 71
    Mac Thomason Says:

    I really think Vazquez is the Braves’ main target, and this Contreras talk is likely White Sox spin trying to convince Schuerholz to take a lesser, older pitcher instead.

    If the money is doable, Dye would be interesting. Yeah, he’s having a horrible year, but I’d have a lot more faith in him than in Willie Harris.

  72. 72
    Kenny Says:

    I have to admit that I am surprised how bad Thorman has been. I knew going into the year he was not going to be a high average guy, but I thought he would really give us a lot of power. I thought that once Craig Wilson got traded that we would see Thorman do even better, but the exact opposite has been true. If we had another option at 1st I would say we let Thorman go back to AAA.

  73. 73
    Smitty Says:

    My barber says Bonds has Lou Gehrig’s disease.

  74. 74
    csg Says:

    we do its Salty, he’s been more than adequate there. Salty/Woodward Im afraid is better than Salty/Thorman. Woodward is actually hitting .290 over the last 30 days, Thorman not so much.

  75. 75
    csg Says:

    actually Woodward is at .278 in 18 Ab’s over the last 30 days, Thorman at .176

  76. 76
    Stu Says:

    I have to agree with everything you said, Mac. Vazquez has been a Braves target for, what, a decade? And if there really is lukewarm interest in Dye, his price won’t be too bad and we should certainly see if we can include him in a trade.

    Still, I wouldn’t be willing to include Salty in a deal even for both of them.

    As usual, I trust JS.

  77. 77
    King Diamond Says:

    It’s really a shame Davies crapped the bed in front of Wayne Krivsky. The Reds are one of the few teams desperate enough for pitching that Davies could have been dealt to. Scott Hatteberg looked good last night–maybe Devine was being showcased a bit?

    If Salty and Escobar or Thorman go to the Chi Sox for Vazquez, it seems reasonable to think the Reds could use Devine and maybe Davies for Hatteberg. Possibly the A’s send Dan Johnson for the same package, with a Blanco-type prospect thrown in? Or Yunel Escobar?

    If JS can land a decent 1B (Hatteberg, Johnson, etc.) along with Javy Vazquez, this is one hell of a team.

  78. 78
    Tony Says:

    I would prefer Dye if he is healthy over Diaz and Harris. We need people who can drive the ball in the gaps and over the fence. I am so afraid to mess with the offense right now. Until McCann, AJ and Francouer can prove they can be consistent driving in runs, b/c let’s face the top of the line-up has been on base all year long, I would definitely not trade Salty and will keep Escobar in against lefties.

    By the way, do we have any legitmate power hitters on the farm? Any?

  79. 79
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    Two phrases that will always make me laugh.

    1) X really did crap the bed (and variations)
    2) X can eat a big ol’ shit sandwich.

  80. 80
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    I’d love to have Dye at his usual above average performance, but holy crap he’s been awful this year. Not Thor-awful, but Andruw-so-far-awful.

  81. 81
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    I always remember things right after I post.

    Based on Dye’s BABIP and other crap like that, he might worth a trade if we could get him for effectively nothing. Can Diaz or Dye play first (to platoon with Salty)?

  82. 82
    Ethan Says:

    Brandon Jones has 14 HR in 350 ABs at Mississippi and Kala Ka’ahue has 20 HR in 280 ABs at Myrtle Beach. His OPS is pushing 1.000 too. He is kinda old for high A, but that ballpark hates offense.

  83. 83
    bfan Says:

    I am wondering why Kala hasn’t moved up to Mississippi-is there a better 1B prospect blocking him, there?

  84. 84
    ububba Says:

    To borrow an oft-used phrase from SI’s Peter King, here are things I think I think:

    1) Salty is our 1B. We’re not trading him. He will get the majority of PT during the stretch drive. He’s a gem. I don’t see anyone we’d trade him for right now.

    2) Vasquez would be welcome. He’s better than Davies. With the Braves, he may be better than Chuck James. Get him, if we don’t have to wreck the roster or the future. I suspect he can be had.

    3) Although he’d actually hit a few homers there, Kyle Davies pitching in the Cincy’s Great American Little League Park is a disaster movie that can’t quite be comprehended. It’ll make the “Towering Inferno” look like “On Golden Pond.”

    4) Met fans are nervous.

  85. 85
    Tony Says:

    How can you be batting .315 20HR 57RBIs and be having a subpar year? If your name is Albert “frickin” Pujols….Damn…just checking out his stats, he has been doing it from day one. The guy is insane, and he’s coming to town next…RED HOT! And he is still only 27…

    How about a Salty, Escobar, AJ for Pujols deal…get to work JS. How I wish….

  86. 86
    Dan Says:

    How about trading Saltalamacchia for pitching, moving Chipper Jones to first base, installing Escobar at third for the rest of the season and letting Kelly Johnson rightly play second everyday?

  87. 87
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Oh, there’s a new poll.

  88. 88
    Tony Says:

    Mac…you just couldn’t resist could you? I don’t know if Escobar keeps getting 2 or 3 hits a game….then man who knows. I just luv his approach at the plate…

  89. 89
    Stu Says:

    Esquivel is another farmhand with power.

  90. 90
    Stu Says:

    Who, besides Tony, voted for the real-higher-than-perceived option?

  91. 91
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    Tony’s parents, cousins, aunts, uncles, and his 2nd grade teacher Mrs. Escobar.

  92. 92
    Tony Says:

    LOL…I knew that was coming. Actually I voted once and might be surprise…

  93. 93
    Stu Says:

    I just luv his approach at the plate…

    Yes, it’s identical to that of Francoeur in the second half of 2005. Swinging a lot, taking no walks, having remarkable success, much better than that predicted by his numbers in the minor leagues.

    Remind me, how well were those trends maintained over the long run?

  94. 94
    Tony Says:

    Stu,

    Seriously not today…geez. I don’t have the energy.

  95. 95
    joshtothemaxx Says:

    We’ve beaten this Escobar thing and poor Tony to death. Let’s just wait until after the ASB, and then 5-8 years from now when Escobar is manning the local 7-11 until we pile on again.

  96. 96
    Tony Says:

    joshtothemax,

    5 or 8 years from now he will be living in a mansion that you…no I’m not going to start. See you guys are trying to pull me in, but I will resist.

  97. 97
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Stu, I have to quibble — this is basically what Escobar’s minor league numbers predicted, a high batting average with no peripheral offense. He didn’t hit a whole lot last year but that was probably a fluke. He hit .313 in Rome in 2005 and .333 in Richmond before his callup, and won the AFL batting title. I think he’s a legitimate .300 hitter, I just don’t see that that makes him a star candidate.

  98. 98
    Mac Thomason Says:

    And a guy who makes his living off batting average is going to have a year in which the singles don’t fall and he hits forty points below his career. If there’s nothing else there, no walks, no power, you wind up with a guy who is producing no offense.

  99. 99
    Stephen Says:

    bfan–I have wondered the same thing. Greg Creek and Mark Jurich play 1B for Mississippi and neither should inhibit Kala’s promotion….

  100. 100
    Stu Says:

    You’re right, Mac. The Francoeur comparison is a bad one.

    Sorry, Tony, I was just looking to get into it with you again. Good for you for not taking the bait.

  101. 101
    JoshQ Says:

    I think Mac just wanted to stir the pot and knew that poll would open the discussion right back up.

    I also agree that if the Braves are targeting a White Sox pitcher it will be Vasquez. They have been salivating over him ever since he made us look ridiculous when he pitched in Montreal.

  102. 102
    bfan Says:

    Kala needs to move up to Mississippi now. Under our current pattern, he stays there and (hopefully) has a good enough last half of the year there. He STARTS there next year and just pounds the crud out of the ball, leaving him as a possible MLB call up by May of 2008. This was the Salty career path (although Salty was younger, and spent they year beating up Myrtle beach high-A pitching)

  103. 103
    Jorgbacca Says:

    As a regular at the M-Braves games I’ve been wondering the same thing as to why Ka’ahue hasn’t been called up. (Didn’t I see something where he wants to be called Isaiah now instead of Kala?) The current M-Braves have been platooning Greg Creek and Josh Burrus at first most of the season. Neither has been too impressive.

    Creek is batting .253 with 1 HR and 17 RBIs
    Burrus is batting .196 with 4 HRs and 24 RBIs.

    Power guys on the team are Brandon Jones and Matt Esquivel. But Matt’s slowed down quite a bit after a really hot first half. He’s a good HR/RBI guy with a lot of walks but only hits about .250. Not really coming up with the clutch hits he was earlier and grounding out a lot. Jones has now surpassed him in RBIs (71 to 66) and has 14 HRs to Matt’s 18. Both strike out a lot. Matt’s got 87 and Brandon’s got 81. Both hit very poorly in last weeks Southern League All Star game.

  104. 104
    JoshQ Says:

    If Kala did just that, then where the heck would we put him? If, as most of us seem to want, we keep Salty at 1B there will be no place for him. Personally I think that is a great problem to have and would love for it to play out this way. We could package Kala next year for whatever we need at the deadline.

  105. 105
    The artist formerly known as Unknown Says:

    Mac,

    I agree with you on the Escobar thing as we all know. However, after talking to some players they are convinced that he is the real deal. In fact, they said that KJ would be traded before Escobar. Maybe Tony gets his wish.

  106. 106
    bfan Says:

    Only difference with KJ, I think, is that KJ makes someone a great 2B, but nothing else.

    Escobar will make some team a very good 2B; SS or 3B, meaning that there are a lot more teams that could fit him into the line-up than could fit KJ.

    I know KJ has played and could play LF, but (a) so could Escobar, and (b) his bat makes him stand-out as a middle infielder, but not as a corner OF.

  107. 107
    Tony Says:

    Wait…I like KJ too, I don’t want to see either traded…I just really believe Esco is better than what many on here think.

    Chipper will not play 1st base, to whomever said that earlier.

  108. 108
    Another Alex R. Says:

    Oops, I voted for the “real value higher than perceived value.” I think I was thrown off by all those big words in a row.

    By the way, my friend, who’s a Blue Jays fan, just asked me how I felt about an Alex Rios-for-Salty trade. I said no, but it’s an interesting offer, at least–Rios is having a great year, he’s only 26, he can play CF, and could replace Andruw in center. According to my friend, other Blue Jays fans think this would be a terrible idea and feel the Braves should throw in more prospects.

    Obviously, I know the Braves need pitching a lot more than they need outfielders, but how do you feel about this as a hypothetical?

  109. 109
    Dan Says:

    Aww hell, if Schuerholz trades Johnson over Escobar, than it will show even Mark Bowman (see the current “Braves’ mailbag”) knows more than Schuerholz.

  110. 110
    Jorgbacca Says:

    I have reservations about Escobar as well but he’s looked really good so far in Atlanta. The reason I’m cautious about him is that he was pretty terrible here in Mississippi last summer. Both offensively and defensively. In fact he and Prado we almost mirror twins of one another. Prado did what I expected from him after getting called up.

    Of course around here I hear a lot of the problem was that he didn’t get along with Jeff Blauser who was the manager last summer.

  111. 111
    JoshQ Says:

    I think many of us would have been interested in this even before the beginning of the year. I would have said pull the trigger before the season started, but now I’m not so sure. That is a tough one AAR.

  112. 112
    Stu Says:

    I don’t think I’d do it, AAR. Our 1B hole is as big as our OF hole (and Salty’s younger and cheaper), and neither is as big as our starting rotation hole.

    And I really, really do not want to trade KJ.

  113. 113
    csg Says:

    KJ shouldnt be traded, Escobar has no real value to us except for a super utility guy. If the Braves got desperate and wanted to free up some payroll to possibly resign Andruw, then they could look to shop Renteria. Unfortunately, he’s really the only guy that we can expect to produce every single night. Trading him could cause some big problems for our offense. He’s really the only person we could move to free up some payroll for next year. if Gonzo was here, Wickman could be moved but oh well. Dont really see us trading Renty and I really, really, wouldnt recommend it

  114. 114
    AMH Says:

    I’m not completely sold on KJ. Here are some stats:

    2005: .241 .334 .397
    2007, April: .326 .473 .593
    2007, May: .259 .322 .426
    2007, June: .256 .356 .360

    The beginning of this year looks like a fluke. I don’t dislike him, but if we are trading for a pitcher, I’d let the other team choose between him and Escobar, and be happy with the other as our 2B.

  115. 115
    Ethan Says:

    What about July? Whenever Bobby actually puts him in the lineup, he’s been ripping. .391 .481. .565.

    His season OBP is .390. He needs to be in the lineup every day. (though I understand they need to showcase Escobar)

  116. 116
    JoshQ Says:

    KJ is not going anywhere. He is young, cheap, and gets on base. Escobar will be traded if we are to get any better in our starting rotation.

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