Braves Journal, The House That Mac Built

Thanks to Mac's family, bravesjournal.com is back.

09 Nov

Andres Thomas vs. Scott Thorman

Andres Thomas Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com

Defeated Henry Blanco 91-22
He could hit: Rick Reuschel. Career line of .370/.379/.704 in 27 AB.

versus

Scott Thorman Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com

Defeated Rico Brogna 67-26
He could hit: Carlos Zambrano. In six PA, had a homer, a double, a single, and a walk.

147 Responses to “Andres Thomas vs. Scott Thorman”

  1. 1
    Smitty Says:

    Kiffin for SEC Coach of the year

  2. 2
    cliff Says:

    (I got JC’d. And, I guess I am arrogant enough to want to make sure everybody sees this.)

    Right now, I think we need to consider Mike Minor as (hopefully) a lesser version of Glavine. I don’t see him pitching at ML level this year unless he is really good again and we have unexpected levels of injuries.

    Wolf is a free agent, right? I don’t see signing a free agent starter where we are now. The only way we could do that is if we trade pitching for non pitching and THEN sign the free agent.

    I did a quick look for lefthanded starters. It actually is pretty sad. The best (with ANY chance of the Braves getting them) seemed to be Wandy Rodriguez and Ted Lilly. After them, it was better to just go with our good righthanders but remember to have 3 functional lefties in the pen and be ready to use them.

    Wandy has only had one really good year (last year). Before that, he was 4 or 5 starter material. Last year was his age 30 season, so it could be a fluke. Really strong improvement in stikeout rate and walk rate in the same year seemed to do it. He has 2 arb seasons left so we would have to give up arb level talent or prospects. Houston needs all sorts of stuff, so matching up might not be that hard.

    Lilly has 13 mill left for 1 year. Money is close with Javy Vazquez, but Javy is inherently a better pitcher than Lilly.

    So, how about we send out Lowe and Vazquez and take back Lilly, Derrek Lee, and Milton Bradley with money moving our way equal to half of Bradley? Then we flip Bradley with the salary relief to an AL club . That is just about even money on Braves payroll for where we are now, solves 1B for one year, evens draft picks for 2011, unloads pitching, and gets us a little more lefthanded in pitching.

  3. 3
    csg Says:

    pretty sure Saban/Meyer will be SEC coach of the year if they go undefeated

    I wonder how the Braves would feel towards Lilly, he seems to throw at a few of them every game

  4. 4
    Mac Thomason Says:

    And it’s hard to see how Kiffy could rank above Chizik, who took over a worse team, has a better record, and beat Tennessee.

  5. 5
    Cary Says:

    @1, Smitty, Kiffins have the Vols playing well and Crompton has improved significantly, but you can’t have an SEC Coach of the Year who lost to the dregs of the PAC-10 (4-5 UCLA, 1-5 in PAC-10 play). You just can’t, especially when two coaches have their teams striding toward the National Championship (of course, one won’t make it).

    The Vols had the talent to go 5-4 all along, but bowl eligibility will be a step forward. Which is to say, there’s some pigskin to be played yet.

    But the Vols have definitely looked better as the year has progressed. Credit for that. I think they’ll nail whomever they play in a bowl game as well.. maybe Citrus Bowl against Penn State/Iowa??

  6. 6
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    2,
    I missed it, but why do we need a LH starter?

  7. 7
    spike (back in the ATL) Says:

    It shouldn’t be overlooked that Chizik has made a couple of nifty recruiting moves already in prying a recruit away from Alabama, and landing a commitment from the nations top RB. I wonder when he’ll be getting apologies from Deadspin, Charles Barkley, Mark Schlabach, et al who bitched nonstop about his hiring. 7 wins with two (hard ones) to play in his first season has to be quite satisfying for ol’ Gene.

  8. 8
    Mac Thomason Says:

    ‘Cause of Utley and Howard.

  9. 9
    csg Says:

    outside pitches to Utley and inside pitches to Howard will take care of them.

    BTW, can anyone explain to me how USC is still in the top 10? Two losses, one to Washington who lost 13 of 14 coming in, and getting drummed by Oregon? They just barely beat an awful Ariz St team. Meanwhile, Oregon with the same 7-2 record is 13th but just manhandled USC

    Why I hate the BCS – if UA had lost to LSU they would’ve had no shot at any title games. Now they could drop a game to an inferior Auburn or Miss St and still play for a NC

  10. 10
    Kevin Lee Says:

    Isn’t Lane Kiffin the term used by highway departments for the detritus found along an interstate.
    “I wish somebody’s come sweep up them lane kiffins.”

  11. 11
    csg Says:

    #7 – any Auburn fan would’ve been happy with a 7-5 record to start the season. They also have to be very happy with the level of the talent getting recruited there.

    and just to throw this out there. I told my brother in law about a month ago that Weiss would do something to cost himself his job before year end and that with Tebow leaving that Meyer will be the coach at Notre Dame next season. Just throwing that out there

  12. 12
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Pretty much every soft-tossing left-hander in baseball history is a lesser version of Glavine, though. I’d prefer other comps for Minor. For example, if he could have a career like that of Randy Wolf or Kirk Rueter — a league-average innings eater who hangs around for a while — he’d be a worthy pick. That’s a whole lot more than any of us can expect from Jo-Jo Reyes.

    Of course, if Minor could turn it up a notch, then we’d really have something. But I’m not trying to get my hopes too high a few months after the draft of a guy that many people panned for simply being good but not great.

  13. 13
    td Says:

    I’m not sure about SEC COY honors, but I agree that Kiffin and Chizik have exceeded expectations this year and I’m mildly happy for Chizik after all the grief Auburn got in hiring him. Not to take anything away from either coach, but the first year is often not a good predictor of long-term success. Ty Willingham was 10-3 at ND in year 1, then 5-7, 6-6. Terry Bowden was 11-0 in his first year at Auburn and followed that up with a 9-1-1 season. OTOH Saban started 7-6 at Alabama.

    One guy who I bet will buck this trend is Paul Johnson at Georgia Tech. He exceeded expectations in his first year with a 9-4 record and is tearing it up this year with a 9-1 record. If he keeps it up, I don’t see how you keep from giving him Nat’l COY honors. I remember that he was talked about quite a bit for the Bama opening. He definitely wouldn’t have been a bad 2nd choice.

  14. 14
    Jeremy Says:

    Meyer ain’t leaving Florida for Notre Dame. He may be a classless, arrogant, cheating whiner but he’s not dumb.

  15. 15
    ububba Says:

    Meyer didn’t go Notre Dame in the first place because the administration wouldn’t lower academic standards for his recruits. As much as the alums hate Fat Charlie & pine for the good ol’ days, that’s probably not going to change.

    csg,
    Trying to figure out rankings (human or computer) is pointless. That’s why the whole system is stupid beyond reason or explanation.

  16. 16
    Parish Says:

    I don’t see how it’s a good idea to get a lefty starting pitcher for the sake of getting a lefty. Just make sure you have an ample supply for the pen.

  17. 17
    Timo Says:

    Talking about Zambrano:

    “By The Associated Press
    The mother of former major leaguer Victor Zambrano has been kidnapped.
    Zambrano’s agent Peter Greenberg says Elizabeth Mendez Zambrano was abducted Sunday morning from her son’s farm near Maracay in central Venezuela.
    In Venezuela, which is home to dozens of major leaguers, the families of wealthy athletes are periodically targeted by kidnappers. Rockies catcher Yorvit Torrealba’s son and brother-in-law were released by kidnappers a day after they were abducted in June.”

  18. 18
    hankonly Says:

    Chizik lost to Kentucky. No one who loses to my alma mater in football can be COY. I think it’s a rule.

    Speaking of which, the annual Clash of Titans (UK v. Vandy) is upon us. (So that’s the sound of one hand clapping … )

    Death to the Fighting Stus!

  19. 19
    Parish Says:

    I do not see how Major Leaguers keep their homes or families in these places.

  20. 20
    BFedRec Says:

    Just missed Halloween with this one Sammy…

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Not-to-worry-Sammy-Sosa-is-just-rejuvenating-hi;_ylt=At1RzQWnIhFcYrTm8dZUjTIRvLYF?urn=mlb,201086

  21. 21
    BFedRec Says:

    Elias Rankings are out. Gonzo and Soriano are type A, LaRoche is B (if MLBTR transcribed right… they do have Vlad as both an A and a B depending on position)

  22. 22
    csg Says:

    no that it matters but Anderson is a B also

  23. 23
    Stu Says:

    hank,
    You making the trip to Nashville? I voluntarily missed the last two home games, but my dad is coming to town, so I’ll be there on Saturday. Hooray.

  24. 24
    HawkeyeFan Says:

    What about taking a flyer on Hank Blalock for 1st base? I saw he is going to be a free agent, is only 28, and has got some pop. He used to play 3rd, so he should be pretty good with the glove. There’s definitely some warts with him (hasn’t played a full season since 2006, doesn’t have the highest OBP, and his right shoulder is shot) but he actually had better stats away from Texas Stadium (OPS of .801), and would definitely be cheaper than Laroche. Just a thought.

    Oops, I just looked and realized he bats left-handed…..what was I thinking?

  25. 25
    Jason C Says:

    Offering arb to Gonzo and LaRoche should be a no-brainer. Soriano, only if you think you can afford it.

    ACHE? No thanks.

  26. 26
    BFedRec Says:

    I saw a couple guys with “can’t be offered arbitration”… what makes that call?

  27. 27
    c. shorter Says:

    Hopefully that’s the team’s designation for ACHE.

  28. 28
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Some players have clauses in their contracts stating that they can’t be offered arbitration.

  29. 29
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    One possible solution to the Braves payroll problem/which pitcher to trade quandary.

    The Angels.

    They are one of the few teams that can actually afford to absorb Derek Lowe’s contract, and have a RH power hitting outfielder in Juan Rivera, who’s contract is club friendly. Adding a couple of minor leaguers in with Rivera for Lowe and his bloated contract would work.

  30. 30
    cliff Says:

    Somebody earlier mentioned it, but Troy Glaus makes some sense as a possible “get by at first base right handed hitter.” IF his arm ever comes back, he might be able to cover some “chipper outages” as well.

  31. 31
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    Yep. Troy Glaus, Adrian Beltre and Juan Uribe to name a few. All decent players with more upside than risk.

  32. 32
    Rob Cope Says:

    Got to head up to The Swamp Saturday to watch the amazingly exciting Vanderbilt game. It was my first game in two years, which is kind of pathetic. I also realized that having first row seats are cool for getting a good look at the sideline and the players and all that, but it sucks for watching the game. You can’t see anything. I felt like I was playing high school football all over again. For probably the first and last times ever, I actually went up the stands in the second half to watch the game with a friend.

    As for the rosterbation, I actually have a lot of confidence that Wren will make a good move in bringing in someone we can use. For someone who seemed to have such a slow start with the swing-and-misses on Furcal, Griffey, Peavy, et al., he’s really showed himself to be a great GM. Don’t stop now, Wren!

  33. 33
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    Thomas or Thorman? No debate about this one even if Thorman was a first round draft pick. Andres Thomas was a massive bust. Everybody and I mean everybody thought he would be a perennial superstar at SS.

    What I am about to spit out is so outrageous, no one, not even myself could make it up.

    Thomas was so highly regarded way back in 1987 that the Braves turned down a trade offer for none other than Barry Lamar Bonds himself. At the time Bonds was coming off his second season in Pittsburgh and had already ticked Jimmy Leyland off to the point that the Pirates manager wanted him gone.

    The Pirates made an initial offer of Bonds for Thomas straight up. Bobby Cox who was the GM at the time, realizing the opportunity made a counter offer of Thomas for Bonds and Andy Van Slyke. The Pirates said yes but only if Zane Smith was included. Cox flatly turned the Pirates down and I can’t blame him for doing it.

    Like I said before, Andres Thomas was so highly regarded that everybody thought he was right behind Barry Larkin in talent and ability. Zane Smith was a southpaw coming of what would eventually be his second best season at the age of 26 (15-10, 242 innings, 4.09 ERA in 36 starts).

    Strangely enough, Zane Smith did end up in Pittsburgh by way of Montreal after Atlanta trade him to the Expos in 1989.

    Cox thought he was getting ripped off. As history would turn out, Bobby was horribly wrong but again, nobody could have predicted the future at the time.

  34. 34
    Stu Says:

    32—Given that our offense is barely D-II-worthy, I was excited to just cover the spread. Our D played well, as it typically does.

  35. 35
    Johnny Says:

    We’ll end up with a player like Nady, Glaus or Beltre. Someone coming off an injury. What they term in the NFL as a ‘project’. Just hope that if its a trade that we don’t waste Vazquez for the likes of a Juan Rivera or Nelson Cruz.

  36. 36
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    35, you have no worries. Both Rivera and Cruz play in the AL west and Vazquez has a no-trade clause which states he can’t be traded to the same division.

    But the best bargain basement free agent is (like I have mentioned before) Mike Cameron. Dude is so underrated.

  37. 37
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    And if ya’ll hadn’t already heard…..as expected Tim Hudson passed his physical today. The Braves will probably announce his new contract numbers tomorrow.

  38. 38
    FlaBravesFan Says:

    Glaus would be interesting, could spell chip at 3rd, play 1st and I thought I read somewhere he was playing some LF in the minors…..

  39. 39
    mraver Says:

    Glaus would be fine, as would Cameron. I wouldn’t trade Vazquez for Nelson Cruz, but what about, say, Schafer? Cruz is a good outfielder, and with Heyward eventually coming up, you’ve got a strong defensive OF even with McLouth in CF (he’s adequate but not great).

    How much do we think Soriano is going to get in arbitration? I’ve got to think he’s going to get a multi-year offer from someone.

  40. 40
    desert Says:

    mraver,

    I really don’t want to give Texas any more prospects…

  41. 41
    ryan c Says:

    David O’Brien

    November 9th, 2009
    5:28 pm
    Hudson MRI is tomorrow, so no announcement today on that front.

    i’m not sure who it was, but someone posted some misinformation above. i would go look who it was but the vast number of posts would be difficult to navigate through. i’m sure whoever it was was probably just misinformed and was, by no means, just posting out of his/her ass.

  42. 42
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Passive aggression rears it’s ugly–though sometimes hilarious–head.

  43. 43
    csg Says:

    possibly extending Vasquez? Im sure the Braves will try and if they cant, he’ll get moved

    http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/11/03/fall-leagues-in-full-swing-rumor-mills-about-to-be/comment-page-25/#comment-345232

  44. 44
    ryan c Says:

    csg, that actually sounds about right.

  45. 45
    Coach (2010-Mr.Overrated retires) Says:

    Ryan(TALKS OUT HIS ASS)c:

    http://markbowman.mlblogs.com/

  46. 46
    ryan c Says:

    ummmm….unless november 4th is today, then you are sadly mistaken…again. it never was pending a physical. the physical was taken almost a week ago. hudson needs an mri, which will be TOMORROW! but thanks for proving yourself wrong.

  47. 47
    Dix Says:

    Really? It’s taking place on November 11th? I will set my google alerts and outlook calendars accordingly.

  48. 48
    ryan c Says:

    do so dix. i’ve rescheduled my manicures and pedicures accordingly…dont wanna be beaten to the punch.

  49. 49
    ububba Says:

    Offering dutiful jabs at the BCS, NY Times college football writer Pete Thamel tells it like it is:

    http://tinyurl.com/yj3uaky

  50. 50
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    I’m not sure that’s quite how it went down, Coach. From Jeff Pearlman’s Bonds bio:

    When the Braves came calling in December 1988, the Pirates listened… [Barry Bonds] was on the table.

    Braves GM Bobby Cox attempted to entice [Pittsburgh general manager Larry] Doughty by dangling 25-year-old Andres Thomas, an up-and-coming star whose 13 home runs and 68 RBIs in 1988 led all National League shortsops. Pittsburgh was intrigued, but the man they insisted on was Jeff Blauser…

    The Pirates rejected Thomas, and Atlanta pulled Blauser off the table… The Pirates had been wise. Either deal would have gone down as one of the worst trades in major league history.

    Interesting story, though. If it’s true that Cox nixed a Blauser-for-Bonds deal, that’s awful in itself. But the Braves didn’t reject Thomas-for-Bonds — the Pirates did.

  51. 51
    Coach (2010-Mr.Overrated retires) Says:

    Hudson’s contract has been finalized, his physical is done and the MRI is a mere formality. It’s a done deal.

    Alex, I don’t know where Pearlman got his information but he’s not even close. I heard it straight from the horses mouth right before it hit the newspapers way back in 1991.

    Maybe sometime when the trolls and keyboard commando’s aren’t around I’ll dish on the Dale Murphy to the Mets fiasco back in 1987.

  52. 52
    Coach (2010-Mr.Overrated retires) Says:

    Yep, Pearlman was way off:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/03/10/sports/baseball-spring-training-report-bonds-to-braves-not-now-maybe-later.html

    We now know that Barry was traded to Atlanta for pitcher Alejandro Peña, outfielder Keith Mitchell and a prospect to be named back in 1992 before the Pirates reneged on the deal.

  53. 53
    NickC Says:

    Indeed. I can see how discussions in 1992 can completely invalidate an account of events from 1988.

  54. 54
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Your memory’s slipping, Coach. That’s a completely different year and a completely different deal. John Schuerholz negotiated a deal for Barry Bonds in 1992, as he recounts in his book Built to Win, which was then nixed by Pirates leadership. As you point out, Bobby Cox was the GM for the previous almost-trade in the late ’80s.

  55. 55
    billy-jay Says:

    @51:

    I have no idea why anyone that witnessed last off-season would think that anything is a done deal.

  56. 56
    Mark Graybill Says:

    @54

    AAR, I admire how evenhanded and restrained you are in this dialogue with Coach. Of course, it always helps to be right.

  57. 57
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Greg McElroy = Jeff Francoeur? I hope not.

    McElroy silences critics with win against LSU | TideSports.com | The Tuscaloosa News | Tuscaloosa, AL

  58. 58
    Smitty Says:

    Francoeur has a better arm than McElroy.

    Coach,

    I think more people would take what you say seriously if you didn’t insult them every time you post something. Use some tact when you want to make a post, or take a Dale Carnegie course.

  59. 59
    BFedRec Says:

    Something we all need to keep in mind…
    http://xkcd.com/386/

  60. 60
    Stu Says:

    Most surprising thing I’ve learned (so far) today: Coach was alive in 1991. I had been operating on the assumption that he’s 13 years old.

  61. 61
    Smitty Says:

    @60

    Me too! I just assumed he was some kid. It seems as though he was working in the Braves front office in the late 80′s.

    Here is a good read that Coach will remember about how bad we were

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1067438/index.htm

  62. 62
    Stu Says:

    It seems as though he was working in the Braves front office in the late 80’s.

    It actually doesn’t seem that way at all.

    Does this make anyone else angry?

  63. 63
    ububba Says:

    Nice post, Smitty, a story of genuine dysfunction with redemption on the horizon.

    Also FWIW, it was written by Gerry Fraley, a former Braves beat reporter.

  64. 64
    joelk Says:

    Speaking of trades that were almost made; I seem to remember a rumor that the Phils once offered Mike Schmidt and Bob Boone to the Braves for Darrell Evans. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

  65. 65
    barrycuda Says:

    Cant we just give the “worst ever”award to Thomas? i mean, he was the worst player on some truly wretched teams. being a big disappointment is only part of the picture. we really had high hopes for him after years of general sorriness by R. Ramirez. it turned out that he couldnt field, throw, hit or run the bases. a real four-tool guy. and, as far as anyone could tell, he didn’t give a damn either……in his player comments Bill James said “why would you even want this guy around”? >>>>>>>>>>Thomas should win in a landslide.

  66. 66
    Johnny Says:

    @61 Great link. My God I am so glad that we have real baseball professionals running our team now.

  67. 67
    Jay Says:

    @62 – Yes.

    So, I’m newly addicted to Twitter, and I’m looking for some good baseball people to follow. I’m following DOB, Keith Law, Rany Jazayerli, Rob Neyer, Kevin Goldstein, Jayson Stark, Ken Rosenthal, and JC (and now Dylan Hernandez). Anybody have any good recommendations?

  68. 68
    Stu Says:

    I follow MLBTR. Not a person, exactly, but it’s info I like.

  69. 69
    ryan c Says:

    i like mlbtr as well. it might not be all factual (more beatwriters’ opinions right now than anything), but it’s interesting nonetheless.

  70. 70
    ububba Says:

    #65
    At least, in the 2 years where the Braves contended, Rafael Ramirez could hit a little bit.

    He had crazy range, but also a knack for kicking routine plays. A really weird player.

    But I agree: When it comes to Andres Thomas, I may have a hard time thinking of another player who, in symbolism & actuality, was worse.

  71. 71
    Jeremy Says:

    @67

    OldHossRadbourn, KenTremendous (of FJM fame), joe_sheehan, injuryexpert (Will Carroll of BP), BenBadler, Jay Jaffe.

  72. 72
    hankonly Says:

    There used to be a guy at Baseball Think Factory that did some amazing analyses of pitchers. I think he got a job in some front office somewhere.

    Anybody know who I’m (kinda/sorta) remembering?

  73. 73
    Sam Hutcheson Says:

    Michael Wolverton?

  74. 74
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Josh Kalk?

  75. 75
    hankonly Says:

    No. Latin name. Went to Purdue. (Yes, Purdue.)

  76. 76
    Jay Says:

    Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Should have been able to come up with MLBTR on my own, but I guess checking the website has just gotten too ingrained.

    And everybody should vote Andres Thomas, the epitome of Brave-badness.

  77. 77
    Stu Says:

    I believe you’re thinking of my man, Carlos Gomez, but he wrote for THT.

  78. 78
    hankonly Says:

    Stu to the rescue!

    You’re right. I linked to him through BTF.

    Did he land a FO gig?

  79. 79
    Stu Says:

    He was working as a scout for Arizona. I assume he still is.

    Greatest quote that genius ever uttered:

    Vanderbilt’s pitching coach, Derek Johnson, and I share many views on mechanics. By the way, Mr. Johnson knows what he’s talking about. Send your kids to Vanderbilt to get the best pitching instruction possible.

  80. 80
    spike (now in South Africa) Says:

    He used to post on BBTF as Chad Bradford Wanabee

  81. 81
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    Yea, that 1988 sports illustrated article brings back some awful memories. However, not all the Braves teams in the 80′s were losers. The 1982 Braves made the playoffs after winning the NL West. Some fella by the name of Joe Torre was pretty good at his job.

    By the way, even though Captain Ted was a mad genius at making money, he wasn’t so good at running his baseball team. The man has the unique distinction of having fired both Joe Torre and Bobby Cox.

    Now, Cox was a damn good GM and rebuilt the minor league system before taking over the managers position again in 1990. but he made some decisions that in retrospect, were really stupid.

    Take for instance the 1989 draft. Cox took some switch hitting catcher by the name of Tyler Houston with the second pick. Ya’ll know who was at top of the Braves scouting board?

    Frank Thomas. yea that’s right, Cox had a shot at acquiring both Barry Bonds and Frank Thomas just months apart.

    Remember the Dale Murphy trade for three no names (Vatcher, Parrett and Rosario)in 1990? Yea, we all do.

    But what most are not aware of is the Mets tried to trade for the mole man two years earlier for Howard Johnson, Lenny Dykstra and two more Met players. Cox blew them off in 1988 and ended up having to part ways with Dale in 1990 for basically nothing.

    I know that nobody is perfect but in retrospect, the vast majority of the fans are guilty of looking at Bobby Cox through rose colored glasses. The man won a world Series in 1995 but the cost was a F-N dynasty. We will never, ever know how many WS Championship teams went down the drain due to Bobby’s screw up’s as the GM and manager.

  82. 82
    Coach (2010- Mr. Overrated retires) Says:

    For all the people sitting on the fence when it comes to the subject of Bobby Cox, here is an interesting read. Make up your own mind:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/260827-the-legacy-of-bobby-cox-glass-half-full-or-half-empty

  83. 83
    csg Says:

    #81 – another bad post, once again. Cox did help this team to get to 14 straight division titles. Should we have won more than 1 world series, yes, but it doesnt take away from the fact that Bobby Cox has been one of the best managers of all time. Clearly its well past his time, but he’s still a legend and will end up in the HOF. You just decided to pick out three bad decisions/trades to define his whole baseball career. You really think people like Chipper, Smoltz, and all these other guys would’ve stuck around to play for someone else? I dont…

  84. 84
    Tom Says:

    People,

    STOP REPLYING TO COACHES POSTS, please. You can all do what you want, of course, but sometimes the pain goes away when you ignore it.

  85. 85
    Smitty Says:

    Did anyone know that the Braves use to play in Milwaukee?

    Ugh.

  86. 86
    csg Says:

    per DOB,

    I’m not getting a sense that the Braves are very high on Nelson Cruz. Of course, at this time of the offseason there is so much posturing you never know how honest people are being and how much they might be hoping that something gets leaked and sends a signal that they’re not sold on this guy or not looking to trade that guy unless they get their doors blown off by an offer, etc.

    But Cruz’s home/road splits are apparently a source of some caution (.931 home OPS/.778 road in 2009), especially given what that Arlington ballpark has done to inflate so many hitters’ numbers over the years….

  87. 87
    Chum Says:

    So Derek Jeter wins his 4th Gold Glove at SS…what a joke.

  88. 88
    Ethan Says:

    This is out from left field, but what about Lowe for Magglio Ordonez straight up? Swapping bad contracts, but hitting a need for each team.

    The combination of McLouth, Diaz, Ordonez, and Church would be a decent upgrade from last year and the net increase is only 3 MM in payroll. This leaves a fair amount of cash to address 1B and the pen

  89. 89
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    67,

    Tommy Bennett Baseball List

    Keith Law Baseball List

  90. 90
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    This is the worst article I’ve ever read, not even a hyperbole. Clearly written by an amateur who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  91. 91
    Jeff K Says:

    Troll.

  92. 92
    Johnny Says:

    @84 – I can’t help it. Somehow I must be attracted to the inane. Hell for some idiotic reason I used to read that idiot Gadfly’s posts.

    @91 – Agreed. That guy doesn’t know WTF he is talking about.

    So if we get a veteran coming off injury or a bad season to fill the right handed bat need who is the lesser of all the damn evils out there?

    @86 – Good news. So the Braves seem to get it that Nelson Cruz’ stats are a product of park effects. Almost makes you have some faith.

  93. 93
    ububba Says:

    The Yankees actually tried something a little different with Jeter at SS this year: They positioned him more up the middle & let A-Rod use his range more in the hole.

    The results were obvious to anyone who watched the Yankees in 2009—you just didn’t see as many of those 14-hoppers become singles to center.

    Jeter’s limited range to his left was addressed somewhat & their infield defense was tighter this year. (Having Tex helped immensely, of course, and Cano seemed to be more interested.)

    Jeter has never struck me as a Gold Glover, but the fact remains, if Jeter gets to the ball, he usually makes the play. He made very few errors this year.

  94. 94
    ric flair Says:

    What happened to Gadfly?

  95. 95
    ric flair Says:

    By the way today is Andres Thomas birthday.
    He is 46 today.

  96. 96
    Mac Thomason Says:

    Gadfly took his ball and went home when JC outed him.

  97. 97
    Smitty Says:

    Give JC Coach’s number…

  98. 98
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    Every piece of news about Holliday I’ve been hearing is seemingly about teams being eliminated from his sweepstakes. The Yankees and Mets have downplayed it, the Giants seem to prefer Jason Bay and might not have the $$, the Red Sox also seem to prefer Bay, the Dodgers and Angels don’t seem to be suitors, and everyone seems convinced the Cardinals won’t be able to pull it off.

    A lot of what gets said publicly is complete garbage this time of year: teams playing politics, trying not to tip their hand, intentionally tipping their hand, or flat out lying about something. But still, it makes me wonder….

  99. 99
    RobBroad4th Says:

    Can someone refresh my memory about the circumstances surrounding Gadfly’s departure? I do remember JC “outing” him, but don’t remember what was said.

  100. 100
    Stephen in the UAE Says:

    If I remember correctly, I think JC made him as an undergraduate majoring in political science at Portland State….

  101. 101
    hankonly Says:

    Is there a Falcons blog similar to this one?

  102. 102
    billy-jay Says:

    hankonly,

    I’m not aware of anyone who actually cares that much about the Falcons. I’m keeping a cautious eye on them, but they still need to prove to me that they’re for real.

  103. 103
    cliff Says:

    hankonly @101,

    There are no blogs similar to “Mac’s Alternate Reality with doses of Atlanta Braves.” Thoughts of such are like considering if there is another Chuck Berry or another Elvis. Classics exist in their own unique corner of the universe.

  104. 104
    hankonly Says:

    I realize that George Carlin’s compare/contrast would likely extend to the blogoshpere and thus am not expecting anywhere near the level of snappy repartee found here.

    Just wondered if there was one that didn’t instantly devolve to:

    “Michael Turner sucks!”

    “You suck!”

    “Micheal Vick got jobbed!”

  105. 105
    billy-jay Says:

    Actually, I would guess that this might be the best place to talk about the Falcons.

  106. 106
    Smitty Says:

    Hmmm, Falcons.

    Matt Ryan won me a lot of money the time he beat Va. Tech on a last second play.

  107. 107
    Sam Hutcheson Says:

    Falcons:

    1) Sign Calvin Johnson next year.

    2) Draft a secondary.

    3) Profit!

  108. 108
    ububba Says:

    I’m another cautious Falcons fan. Unlike Jets fans, I realize my plight & refuse to be disappointed.

    Nonetheless, I’ve committed to attend my first Falcons game in 10 years. They’ll be visiting the Meadowlands twice this season & I’m going to the Falcs/Jets game on Dec. 20.

    I’m sure it’ll be nut-freezing cold, so call me crazy, but a friend from ATL wanted to fly up & go, so why not?

    What’s crazy is that, because the Jets are gouging their fans for PSLs (along with the Giants, they move into a new stadium next year), thousands of their fans punted on season tickets this year & they remain available.

    So for the first time ever, you can buy Jets tix online, just like you’re going to a Mets game.

  109. 109
    Kevin Lee Says:

    Can a PSL be inherited?
    Could a club/organization challenge that?

  110. 110
    cliff Says:

    I just saw a rumor, that if it is true, may be one of the dumber trades of recent years.

    Supposedly, the Tigers are looking at moving Edwin Jackson (5th overall year, 2nd arb year) to “clear payroll.” The payroll they clear is to be invested in late inning reliever(s). Supposedly, they are looking to Dodgers for George Sherrill one up for Jackson.

    I know Jackson finished the year much lower than his start, but overall, he showed big progress.

    As it relates to the Braves, I don’t see how the Tigers would take on Lowe to get rid of Magglio and pay money. Jackson’s reasonable, projectable production doesn’t seem like it should be less than Lowe’s, does it?

    And, after thinking about Lowe for Magglio, I am o.k. with that IF the Tigers throw in some money, like 6 M a year for the two years ( I THINK now that 2011 is vested, which makes the whole consideration a little tough). If Magglio still has trouble hitting righties, then that gives you the transition to bring up Heyward in June and then have 3 days off because of righthanders for Magglio and 1 for Diaz out of each week, with Heyward sitting about a third of the time against lefties (just enough to stay rested, but with plenty of at bats to get better).

  111. 111
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    I might consider Lowe for Maggs, especially if the Tiggers sent us a little money. Their pitching is pretty raggedy, and we’d be doing them two favors: taking a bad contract off their hands and improving their pitching staff.

    By the way, you can stop holding your breath. Griffey’s off the board.

  112. 112
    Johnny Says:

    I don’t get it but maybe Junior can have a better year and go out in style.

  113. 113
    Stu Says:

    Completely OT, but this is hilarious and should be read and appreciated by all.

  114. 114
    ububba Says:

    Dunno if any of you guys are vets out there, but here’s to you today.

  115. 115
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Second that, Ububba.

    By the way, here’s a fan post from minorleagueball.com you might like: The Top 10 Prospects of the Last 20 Years.

    #2: Andruw Jones
    #5: Jason Heyward
    Hon. mention: Chipper Jones

    Heyward is the only person on the list who is still in the minors. Only two teams have multiple prospects on the list: the Expos (#3 Vlad Guerrero and #9 Cliff Floyd), and the Braves.

  116. 116
    mikemc Says:

    The animals shown in the picture aren’t even monkies. Another waste of taxpayers’ money.

  117. 117
    ububba Says:

    Y’know, next year could be a real double dose of fun for Braves followers.

    I’ll assume we’ll upgrade where necessary. So with our pitching, we could certainly contend.

    And then there’s the Heyward Watch.

  118. 118
    Coach (2010-Mr.Overrated retires) Says:

    I’ll too send out a big Horah to all of my fellow brothers and sisters in arms, including my sister who is in Iraq.

    Alicia, stay safe and come home soon.

  119. 119
    Stu Says:

    A list of FAs whom the Braves won’t pursue.

  120. 120
    barrycuda Says:

    114&115…thanks guys. i was drafted in August ’69 in the largest monthly draft call in American history. did my year in the S.E. Asia war games and came to this media-free place shortly after. the only tv network here was CBS and that meant a Falcons game every Sunday. some of the most god-awful, boring football ever. and in spite of having some really good players, they sucked out loud and i still cant bring myself to be interested in Atlanta football.

  121. 121
    FlaBravesFan Says:

    I see where Wren is trying to gauge Lowe’s interest at the Winter Meetings…..If he could move his salary, get a RH bat, and Wagner as our closer, I’d BRONZE his balls and AND nominate him for GM of the year

  122. 122
    spike (now in South Africa) Says:

    @119 – that’s good news.

    One’s already gone…http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/royals-expected-to-sign-betemit.html

    Dayton Moore, exBrave addict

  123. 123
    Johnny Says:

    Third that ububba. Barrycuda, thanks for your service to our country. My dad did combat tours in both the Korean and Vietnam conflicts. I’m pretty proud of him.

    @119 I laughed at that list of Tellum clients. None of them are any good!

  124. 124
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    122,
    I laughed when I saw that.

  125. 125
    FlaBravesFan Says:

    AJC Says we need Adrian Gonzalez, I like it, but we need RH power. Also per AJC, Wren would prefer to trade (in this order) Lowe, Vasquez (stupid in my opinion) or Kawakami. Hudson, Hanson and JJ are off limits. I would hate to see Vasquez go, but selling hi might not be a bad idea. I just think signing JV to an extension would be wise. If he like playing here, and can model his contract after Hudsons, I would rather do that. I think our pitching even with a Pat Burrell (as an example) might be enough. BUT WE HAVE TO SIGN BILLY WAGNER

  126. 126
    RobBroad4th Says:

    If we signed Adrian Gonzales and Billy Wagner, I’d tattoo a tomahawk on my forehead.

  127. 127
    hankonly Says:

    Monkey collider? 1996? That was, um, random. What did I miss?

    Btw, if Vandy should lose on Saturday, their lifetime record will be exactly .500.

    The Battle for The Tipping Point? What do you get? The book?

  128. 128
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    What we really need is Luis Durango. Lead-Off hitter!

  129. 129
    ububba Says:

    The debate on WFAN today: Should the Yankees go after Roy Halladay?

  130. 130
    Cary Says:

    The Yankees, of course, should get Halladay (taking Vernon Wells also) AND sign Matt Holliday. Then they can add Aroldis Chapman and call it a repeat. Yay!

    DA YANKEES WIN! DAAAAAAA YANKEES WINNN!

    That would be smart. It would prove that the Yankees are the greatest ever. Yankee rule; everyone else drools. Yankees #1!

    (*is there anything more boring than Yankees championships? ugh)

  131. 131
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    130,
    Red Sox championships? Or just the Red Sox in general. Or any steroids allegations. Actually, these things are only equally boring as Yankees championships. Something more irritating than Yankees championships: Phillies championships.

  132. 132
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    If There’s One Thing the Braves Don’t Need, it’s Roy Halladay. What has he ever won? The so-called “best pitcher in baseball” went home earlier this year while so-called “lesser talents” pitched far into October, including C.C. Sabathia, Josh Beckett, Cliff Lee, and even (oh yeah, former Brave) Adam Wainwright. Face it, when the Jays needed to make the playoffs, Roy just couldn’t deliver. He has double-digit losses two years running, and he’s a pitiful 3-38 in his batting career. NL pitchers will eat him alive. No Thanks!

  133. 133
    ububba Says:

    Even the local on-air radio host, who’s a lifelong Yankee fan, called any potential Yankee acquisition of Halladay “obscene.”

    Instead, he endorsed the Mets acquiring him.

  134. 134
    P. W. Hjort Says:

    133,
    I hope they do. This is all a pipe dream, of course, because they don’t have the young talent inventory to acquire a Roy Halladay to begin with, but I hope they do. I hope they gut what little bit of a farm they have left to acquire 1 year of Roy Halladay, eliminating them from the Lackey/Holliday sweepstakes. That way, they waste a bunch of money and talent, and it’s all in vain after they realize Santana needs Tommy John surgery.

    That’s how I hope it plays out. While the Braves swoop in and land Holliday and win the NL East.

    Disclaimer: Nothing against Santana other than he plays for the Stem.

  135. 135
    Johnny Says:

    I get that you are a big Matt Holliday fan but how much would you be willing to pay him? I’m not holding my breath. Unless payroll expands by a lot a Rube Goldberg trade would have to happen to clear payroll. We trade Lowe, take on a bad contract, then we trade the bad contract for a utility player and a player to be named later. Sorry don’t see it happening but I guess we an all believe in Santa this year.

  136. 136
    BFedRec Says:

    Heyman:

    Braves GM Frank Wren said they would look to field offers on a couple of their starting pitchers. That includes Derek Lowe, who could draw interest from the Yankees as an alternative to John Lackey. “We’re in a position where people know we have an excess in starting pitching,” Wren said. He said they could go use one of their starters in another role but that that’s “unlikely.” The Braves are looking for offense, and a corner outfielder with power would fit them.

    Lowe for Swisher? Is that what the implication is? Swisher gets $6Mish in ’10 and $9M in 11… with a $1M buyout for 12 (or $11Mish I think).

  137. 137
    Dusty Says:

    Dob tweets that Hudson is official 3 years with a fourth year option.

  138. 138
    BFedRec Says:

    More on Huddy extension:

    http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2009/11/10/braves-explore-options-during-gm-meetings/comment-page-13/#comment-346798

  139. 139
    td Says:

    The Swisher/ Lowe trade would be awesome. I haven’t been a huge Swisher fan, but if we could get him and unload Lowe’s contract for a more reasonable one at the same time – wow! Kudos for Wren if he can pull this one off.

  140. 140
    Stu Says:

    136—I don’t think that’s the implication. I think Heyman would have mentioned Swisher’s name if he thought a Lowe-Swisher deal were likely. I’d love a Lowe-for-Swisher deal, but I can’t imagine it’s going to happen. Are the Yankees going to play Jerry Hairston or Melky Cabrera in right next year? The time to get Swisher was last offseason, when he was traded for a package highlighted by Wilson F. Betemit.

  141. 141
    Cary Says:

    @131, steroid allegations *smacks forehead*

    You got me there. That is definitely more boring than DA YANKS.

  142. 142
    spike (now in South Africa) Says:

    The Yankees do not have the cheap good players/prospects to get Halladay. Having said that, they certainly have the funds to just buy him in 2011, which is what I would do if I were them. I suspect they will dump one of Matsui/Damon, and buy one of Bay or Holliday to restock the OF.

  143. 143
    BFedRec Says:

    They could afford to get two of Damon/Bay/Holliday and then trade Swisher to the Braves for Lowe. (Matsui is more their DH right? so not really a factor in the OF planning)

    (yes, I’m keeping this silly “dream” alive… even though I’m not a huge Swisher fan)

  144. 144
    Stu Says:

    Charles,
    Which of those guys can play right field?

  145. 145
    td Says:

    My take on Swisher from the Yankees’ standpoint is that he met a need last year, but if they could do better ,they’d jump on it. I’m not sure if trading Swisher for Lowe and then picking up someone else is what the Yanks have in mind, but we can hope it is.

  146. 146
    Mac Thomason Says:

    New post. A lot of it’s rehash.

  147. 147
    ATLANTA SPORTS FAN IN VEGAS Says:

    Andres Thomas…I remember him saying when he was playing badly..Play me or trade me…LOL

Leave a Reply

© 2014 Braves Journal, The House That Mac Built | Entries (RSS) and Comments (RSS)

GPS Reviews and news from GPS Gazettewordpress logo