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09 Oct

Sansho1’s Amazing Braves Nickname Database

Sansho1 completed a Herculean task: he compiled a database of all of the nicknames that we’ve seen come and go in this city. Baseball-reference has many player nicknames, and others came from memory. When you look at a list like this, you get a sense of the history of baseball we’ve had in this town. A lot of these guys would have given their left one to get to go to the playoffs every year, like these Braves have done — we’ve only missed the playoffs five times in the last 22 years. And they had awesome nicknames. Enjoy.

Multiple Nicknames  
Henry Aaron The Hammer
  Hammerin’ Hank
  Bad Henry
Greg Maddux Mad Dog
  Doggie
  The Professor
Orlando Cepeda Cha Cha
  Baby Bull
Ralph Garr Road Runner
  Gator
Deion Sanders Neon Deion
  Prime Time
Melky Cabrera Melk Man
  Leche
 
Insults  
Darrell Evans Howdy Doody
Terry Forster Fat Tub of Goo
Alex Gonzalez Sea Bass
Ray King Burger
Willie Montanez Hot Dog
Tom Paciorek Wimpy
Milt Pappas Gimpy
Lonnie Smith Skates
Dave Nicholson Swish
 
Alternate Names  
Johnnie Baker Dusty
Lee Capra Buzz
John Francona Tito
Jesus Frias Pepe
Clarence Gaston Cito
Roland Jackson Sonny
Larry Jones Chipper
Abraham Miller Corky
Alvin Moore Junior
Joseph Reyes Jo-Jo
Eddie Solomon Buddy J
 
Same Nickname, Multiple Players  
Jim Bouton  
Hank Fischer  
Tim Hudson Bulldog
 
Claude Raymond  
Jeff Francoeur Frenchy
 
Animals  
Antonio Alfonseca El Pulpo
Sandy Alomar, Sr. Iron Pony
Larvell Blanks Sugar Bear
Clay Carroll Hawk
Danny Frisella Bear
Andres Galarraga The Big Cat
Fred McGriff Crime Dog
Felix Millan The Cat
Bob Watson Bull
 
Adjectives  
Marvin Freeman Starvin’ Marvin
Willie Harrie Harris Fast Willie
Mark Whiten Hard Hittin’
Rico Carty Beeg Boy
Steve Lyons Psycho
 
Name Variations  
Mark Lemke Lemmer
Jarrod Saltalamacchia Salty
Dale Murphy Murph
John Smoltz Smoltzie
Tom Glavine Glav
Rafael Furcal Fookie
Bobby Bonilla Bobby-Bo
 
Objects  
Steve Bedrosian Bedrock
Mack Jones The Knife
Wally Joyner World
Johnny Lee Odom Blue Moon
Marty Perez Taco
Gerald Williams Ice
Jimmy Wynn Toy Cannon
 
Titles  
Juan Berenguer Senor Smoke
Dennis Martinez El Presidente
Gary Matthews Sarge
Hoyt Wilhelm Old Sarge
John Montefusco Count
Norm Charlton Sheriff
 
People/Jobs  
Jeff Blauser Bud Man
Joe Boever Saver
Barry Bonnell Preacher
Al Hrabosky The Mad Hungarian
Jeff Reardon The Terminator
Billy Wagner The Kid
Rafael Belliard Pac-Man
Juan Francisco El Niño Destructor
 
Bermanisms  
Oddibe McDowell Young Again
Bruce Benedict Eggs
 
Non Words  
Phil Niekro Knucksie
 
Not A Nickname!  
Biff Pocoroba

113 Responses to “Sansho1’s Amazing Braves Nickname Database”

  1. 1
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Please suggest any of the ones we missed in the comments, and we can post an update later! Please note, we tried to stick to widespread nicknames, rather than ones that were Bravesjournal-specific.

  2. 2
    Remy Says:

    Felix Millan was known as “The Kitten.” Also, I think you meant “Harris” instead of “Harrie” for Willie Harris.

    Fantastic job! Congratulations!

  3. 3
    DG Says:

    Bermanisms: Steve “Poison” Avery, “My Cousin” Vinny Castilla, Pat “OK” Corrales, Jody Davis “eyes”, Tony Tarasco “sauce”, Paul “Orville” Assenmacher, Doyle “Brandy” Alexander, Pedro Borbon “Street”, Damon “Blue” Berryhill.

  4. 4
    Remy Says:

    Additions: Pat Jarvis was known as “The Little Bulldog” and Jim Britton, another pitcher for the ’67 team, was known as “Hondo.”

  5. 5
    Jonesy Says:

    Chipper gave out several nicknames:
    Juan Francisco – Roadrunner
    Martin Prado – Teen
    Kris Medlen – Meds/Med-Dog
    Paul Janish – Soft J

    And I assume we’re leaving off the obvious ones:
    Brian McCann – Mac/B-Mac
    Tim Hudson – Timmy/Huddy
    Jason Heyward – J-Hey
    Michael Bourn – Mikey
    Andrelton Simmons – Andy/Simba (does this one exist outside Talking Chop?)
    David Ross – Rossy (personally I’ve taken to yelling out his name like Rick Ross, but that’s just me)

  6. 6
    justhank Says:

    There’s always Enos Cabell.

    But that’s low-hanging fruit. So to speak.

  7. 7
    DG Says:

    More Bermanisms: Jeff “See Through” Blauser, Marvin “Philadelphia” Freeman, Andres “The Giant” Galarraga, Tom “Heard it Through the” Glavine, “Tux” Cito Gaston, Bernard “Innocent Until Proven” Gilkey, Jay “Thurston B.” Howell “III”, Glenn “Old Mother” Hubbard, Chris Hammond “Cheese”, Dion “Barles and” James, David “Supreme Court” Justice, Kent “Magic” Mercker, Dave “Vodka” Martinez, Rick “Junk” Mahler, “Eating” Raul Mondesi, Greg “Math” Maddux and Greg “Appa” Maddux, Gregg Olson “Golden”, Terry “Pit and the” Pendleton, BJ “and the Bear” Surhoff, Reggie “Colonel” Sanders, Andres “Doubting” Thomas, Mark “Bay City” Wohlers, Bob “Intentional” Walk.

  8. 8
    Remy Says:

    Baseball Almanac lists “Mr. Ho Mah” for Bob Horner, though I don’t recall having heard it.

  9. 9
    JonathanF Says:

    Milo Hamilton called Pat Jarvis http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jarvipa01.shtml “The Little Bulldog,” and, courtesy of the Tubes, you don’t even have to take my word for it. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19700611&id=EU5SAAAAIBAJ&sjid=JnwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3813,393805

  10. 10
    Mike N. Says:

    Is Crime Dog the only good nickname Chris Berman has created?

  11. 11
    sansho1 Says:

    Yeah, I had to draw the line somewhere, and I just don’t think “BMac” et al qualify. Glav and Smoltzie aren’t much either, but it seemed a shame not to have them represented. I stand fully behind “Murph”, as he was rarely if ever called anything else.

    Two I struggled with — I don’t recall if Montanez was really nicknamed “Hot Dog”, or if he was just the first ball player I ever heard described that way. So I could be wrong on that one.

    Also, “Taco” isn’t the sort of nickname you’d come up with today, and BBRef doesn’t list it, but Milo and Ernie routinely referred to Marty Perez that way, so I included it in the interest of academic rigor. Anyway, I hope it’s an enjoyable read. Thanks for all the Bermanisms, DG!

  12. 12
    Ray Says:

    What’s with his right hand?
    http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/10/8/3474036/a-rod-turns-in-slide-of-the-year

    Is he telling himself to get down?
    Kids, stay away from drugs…

  13. 13
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    “Willie Harrie” has been fixed. This is a great list, everyone. We’ll be returning to the subject later in the offseason, have no fear.

  14. 14
    Parish Says:

    Wasn’t Glenn Hubbard also Sugar Bear?

    Another Bermanism. I recall:
    Ryan “I could catch the ball better if I had” Langerhans.

  15. 15
    braves14 Says:

    Andres “The Big Cat” Galarraga.

  16. 16
    braves14 Says:

    Oh, never mind, I see it now.

  17. 17
    bledsoe Says:

    Nice job.

    Millan was “the LITTLE Kitten.” Likewise, Marty Perez was the “Little Taco.” And Pat Jarvis was the Little Bulldog. Radio listeners of Milo Hamilton rarely heard them called by their real names. Eggs Benedict preceded Chris Berman by some years I believe.

    Gerald Perry was The Claw, for his glovework.

    Bobby Cox used to call Lemke Dirt.

  18. 18
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    I wrote a postmortem on the 2012 season for Yahoo.

  19. 19
    Remy Says:

    Do we include “Tex” for Teixeira?

  20. 20
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Oh! I can’t believe we left out Pascual “I-285″ Perez!

  21. 21
    JB Says:

    Chipper used to call Henry Blanco “Hank White.”

  22. 22
    Marc Schneider Says:

    I don’t recall hearing Millan called “the little kitten.” I just recall “the kitten.”

  23. 23
    spike Says:

    I seem to remember Chris Chambliss being called “The Executive”.

    And the entire 1976 team wore nicknames on their jerseys – this article is a must-read:

    http://www.uni-watch.com/2012/06/27/another-look-at-the-braves-1976-jersey-nicknames/

    Some highlights:
    Andy Messermith became “Channel” – his number was 17 and Ted thought it would be a great idea. MLB put a stop to this one.

    Jerry “Rooster” “J. Bird” Royster http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7220/7274045198_83c831b4f2_c.jpg

  24. 24
    Timo Says:

    Great list.

    Mike Gonzalez: Cobra.

  25. 25
    Smitty Says:

    Don’t forget:

    Corky Miller- “The Hamster”
    Teixeira- “Still a douche”

  26. 26
    Jay W. Says:

    Antonio Alfonseca: “Base 12″

  27. 27
    bledsoe Says:

    Perimeter Perez, in addition to I=285.

  28. 28
    Scott Says:

    Nitram Odarp – Martin Prado
    Greg White – Gregor Blanco

  29. 29
    Remy Says:

    Jimmy Wynn aka “The Toy Cannon.”

  30. 30
    Mark Grogan Says:

    1986 bench: The Bomb Squad.

  31. 31
    Remy Says:

    Who was that Braves AAAA player whom everyone called “The Mayor”? Does he count?

  32. 32
    Mark Grogan Says:

    I believe Damon Hollins was Tthe Mayor. Whether he counts, I’ll leave his fate to the electorate.

  33. 33
    Remy Says:

    #32

    That’s the guy. Thanks!

  34. 34
    Mark Grogan Says:

    I am able to get lost for endless hours in B-ref.com. I just got lost for 20 minutes in Mac’s archives looking for Damom Hollins. Sorry, I can’t do italics, I was absent that day:

    The replacement for Matthews would seemingly be either Richmond Mayor Damon Hollins or Dewayne Wise. Both are hitting .333 this spring, Wise in slightly more playing time, but Hollins has the longstanding ties with the organization and has more power. Or they could go with Mike Hessman, or keep an extra utility infielder. Because Marrero and Drew can play center, it’s not as crucial that the fourth OF be able to play center.

    Mac would post in those days sometimes after only one or two comments. I could spend endless days re-reading his work. Both because of his talent with the language, and my love for the Braves.

  35. 35
    PaulV Says:

    SNL’s Millan “Baseball has been very, very good to me?

  36. 36
    Smitty Says:

    Great interview line from Hudson:
    http://m.nbcsports.com/content/hbt-hudson-ok-braves-fans-trashing-field

  37. 37
    Dan Says:

    Maybe this is old news, but did anyone realize that Chad Durbin’s father, Joe, posted in July on Mac’s April write-up about the Durbin signing? Last comment:

    http://www.bravesjournal.us/?p=7804

    Better than Jason Shiell’s wife?

  38. 38
    ryan c Says:

    Can somebody remind me what the deal was with Ted Simmons and pink flamingos? I seem to recall that as a kid.

  39. 39
    ryan c Says:

    Trade scenario: If the Mets were to come to the Braves and offer Jason Bay for Tommy Hanson with every dime of Bays contract paid for, would ya do it?

  40. 40
    Parish Says:

    39 – I don’t think I would.

  41. 41
    Dan Says:

    No. Hanson is still better than Bay.

  42. 42
    Stu Says:

    37—That is awesome.

  43. 43
    DG Says:

    @37: Check this out: http://www.natsinsider.com/2012/04/durbin-signs-with-braves.html?m=1

  44. 44
    kc Says:

    To be fair, Chad didn’t dominate and was not used in many high leverage situations, but he did provide the Braves some good bullpen work in 2012.

  45. 45
    Adam M Says:

    Chad Durbin’s dad is definitely meme-worthy.

  46. 46
    One Eye Says:

    Chad pitched at a more than acceptable level most if the year. I hope they bring him back.

    /notchadsdad

  47. 47
    sansho1 Says:

    He’s been worth about two extra wins in 280 IP as an NLer in the past few seasons. Not the kind of guy you’d give a big raise, but I’d be okay with him coming back.

  48. 48
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    I’ll be the first to admit that Durbin exceeded my wildest expectations, but I’m not convinced that he a) is likely to repeat that performance, or b) will be a better use of the 2013 salary we’d pay him than would a league-minimum person like Yohan Flande, the guy he replaced.

    I’m worried that Durbin in 2013 will turn into Scott Proctor/Scott Linebrink/Tanyon Sturtze/Livan Hernandez/Miguel Batista/Mike Remlinger 2.0/insert veteran reclamation project here.

  49. 49
    Parish Says:

    As skeptical as I was about the Durbin signing, I would not mind seeing him back. I would not pay him more than $1M though.

    We’ve done worse for a “veteran” option.

  50. 50
    kc Says:

    Does Moylan still have anything left?

  51. 51
    spike Says:

    I don’t think he’s had his shins done yet. Oh wait…

  52. 52
    Marc Schneider Says:

    With marginal relief pitchers, it’s always best to assume reversion to the mean and cut bait. Except for the top guys like Kimbrel, relief pitchers are typically up and down and you can’t count on them from one year to the next.

  53. 53
    JoeCraigMcMurtry Says:

    Any thoughts on what Chase Headley would cost? Given that he was a 7.6 WAR player this season I assume they will want at least one of Delgado/Teheran, plus probably two more top prospects and Tommy Hanson.

    On the other hand, that was Headley’s age 28 season, he is due a big raise in arbitration, and he will be a free agent after the 2014 season. And they are the Padre and they should probably be aiming to win in 2015. If I were their GM I would definitely trade him. Would I get a better offer than Delgado/Teheran, Ahmed/Salcedo and Gilmartin?

  54. 54
    Smitty Says:

    Starting playoff games at 1:00 on a weekday means you have too many playoff teams.

  55. 55
    Marc Schneider Says:

    It’s great for me. I’m taking off work to spend a nice fall day at the ballpark.

  56. 56
    justhank Says:

    @53 – Headley would be my #1 target, as well.

  57. 57
    Adam R Says:

    If the Padres can’t afford to extend their one great player, they might as well not be a baseball team.

  58. 58
    csg Says:

    Should the Braves be looking at trading a package for Headley or would the Braves FO be smarter moving Prado back to 3rd and getting a bat like Swisher to play LF?

  59. 59
    John R. Says:

    As far as nicknames coined around here, I’m quite fond of Jose “Pressure on the Defense” Constanza.

    Also Scott “Rusty” Linebrink, which arose after the infamous game last year when Linebrink had been on the DL for weeks and his first appearance back was a high-leverage situation in which he lost the game against the Cubs. Fredi framed the performance as just him being “rusty”, which should have more appropriately been taken as a euphemism for “just plain sucks at any time of usage”.

  60. 60
    kc Says:

    The padres would ask for Simmons and Medlen. They are not stupid.

  61. 61
    Jonathan Says:

    Alex @18 – great yahoo article!

  62. 62
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    I think Braves Journal nicknames, most of which are courtesy of Mac and many of which are in the Glossary, deserve their own section of the database, if not their own thread altogether.

    For example:

    Eric O’Flaherty, Jonny Venters, and Craig Kimbrel – O’Ventbrel
    Manny Acosta – Atrosta
    Wes Helms – Wes Smelms
    Melky Cabrera – Smelky
    Scott Linebrink – Linestink
    Jorge Sosa – Kim Jong-Il
    Roberto Hernandez – Boom-Boom Bobby
    Brian McCann – Pimpbot 16
    ACHE – Garret Anderson, Cleanup Hitter Extraordinaire
    Corky Miller – The Hamster
    Tyler Yates – Kali
    Chris Resop – Poser
    Jonathan Schuerholz – Lil’ Jonny
    Tony Pena Jr. – Lil’ Tony
    Cristhian Martinez – The Lisp
    Oscar Villarreal – The Vulture
    Scott Proctor – The Proctologist
    Jose Constanza – Georgie
    Shane Victorino – Burn-in-Hell
    Buster Posey – Out
    Cody Ross – Commando Cody
    Mark Teixeira – Still-a-douche

    From other Braves Journalers, I think:
    Dan Kolb – Dank Lob
    Jason Heyward – Bad Henry County (credit to Sansho, I believe)
    Andrelton Simmons – Huge Shit (credit to Stu)
    Alex Gonzalez – Another Alex Gonzalez or AAG (Mac, I think, but inspired by my user name)

  63. 63
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Thanks, Jonathan!

  64. 64
    sansho1 Says:

    Anyone else hear Curt Schilling on Colin Cowherd about an hour ago? He was completely incoherent. Sample sentence (paraphrased): The NFL plays a new season every week, but ARod is a cheater.

  65. 65
    Remy Says:

    Maybe he’s lost his marbles as well as his millions?

  66. 66
    td Says:

    One of my personal favorite Braves Journal nicknames is Dan Struggla. Unfortunately it describes him way too often.

  67. 67
    td Says:

    You also forgot a classic one for Alex Gonzalez – AGONy

  68. 68
    Dusty Says:

    I’m going to go on record as saying I want no part of Bourn for any more than 3/$36 Million. I know the defense is great, but you want your leadoff man to put pressure on the defense, not K 155 times in a year. He came up with a K so many times with guys on base late in the year. Pass.

  69. 69
    spike Says:

    errr… Bourn was in the top 25 in OBP and 2nd in SB. Isn’t that the definition of “putting pressure on the defense” for a leadoff man?

  70. 70
    JoeCraigMcMurtry Says:

    @60- The Padres might ask, but they would not seriously expect to get Medlen, let alone Medlen and Simmons. They know that Headley will be 29 years old next year, with a salary of about 8 million. If he reverts to his mean (which is a slightly better than average player) they are looking at having missed the window to cash in on a player that is not ever likely to help them win a division. If there has ever been a sell high candidate it is Chase Headley. Nevertheless, for a team like the Braves in win-now mode, he is the perfect piece.

    And now the Cardinals are showing why that wildcard game loss is so painful. The Nats are thoroughly beatable right now. We’d have Med Dog on the mound, perhaps even going for the sweep. Meanwhile the Reds have lost their best pitcher. The goddamn Cardinals will probably go to the World Series.

  71. 71
    csg Says:

    His .225/.325/.311 post all star line is alarming and it should bring his cost down some.

  72. 72
    spike Says:

    Bourn was also 6th in Runs and 8th in walks. That’s pretty much the traditional definition of a leadoff guy, no? Gets on base a lot, steals bases, scores runs.

  73. 73
    spike Says:

    @71, I agree on cost, but I don’t find his post ASB numbers any more alarming than I find his pre-ASB numbers assuaging. He’s not particularly old, and there is no reason for him to fall off a cliff. The season consists of good and bad streaks for every player, and I don’t see any particular reason to assign any greater value to his late season decline than to a late season renaissance if the pre and post figures had been reversed

  74. 74
    Maverickjb Says:

    I probably read Braves Journal too much as I find myself using many of these nicknames such as The Lisp, Smelky and Commando Cody Ross when coming across these players on MLB Show. On the other hand I believe Bourn will be overpaid by Mats or Phillies. We should go Dexter Fowler route, Maybe Pagan , Jose Tabata or Wren will do something boring like Denard Span who knows ??

  75. 75
    Dusty Says:

    Does anyone here really want to go 5/75 for an aging speedster? Not that 5/75 would even get it done, though maybe so after the 2nd half swoon.

    I agree he did some things well at times, especially defense, but it seems that the skills that make him valuable now will diminish rapidly over the life of his next contract a la Pierre or Figgins. Wouldn’t mind having him for a couple of years, but I really want no part of a 4th or 5th year especially given the cost.

  76. 76
    Smitty Says:

    @75

    I agree. I wish him well in Washington

  77. 77
    Adam M Says:

    Even with his awful post ASB numbers, Bourn has considerable value. And as has been pointed out before, “speedsters” technically age considerably better than do large sluggers. For instance, Bourn is a much better bet to hold value longer than would, say, McCann.

    I wouldn’t have a problem with 5/75 for Bourn so long as it didn’t tie the Braves up financially, but I fear that it would. Which is also to say: I have no problem with the 5/75 contract in general–and I’d probably call it a great deal for any club that got him to sign it–but for the Braves it probably wouldn’t be that smart. To that end, I’d much rather have them use money on an elite arm and a more affordable outfielder.

  78. 78
    Dusty Says:

    I stipulate that large sluggers do have the worst aging curve in general as I believe studies have shown. But just because speedsters age better than large sluggers doesn’t mean they age well, right?

    I admit, I’m not using hard data to back this up but logically if your value is derived from speed and if speed tends to evaporate with age, wouldn’t it stand to reason that signing a 30-year old speedster to a long term deal for more money than anyone on the team is a bad allocation of resources?

    Anyone have hard data on the aging of players who’s value is derived mainly from speed?

  79. 79
    Dusty Says:

    EDIT: Ok, I found a tango article that addresses this and he found that speedsters age slightly better than normal star players. You wonder how much of this is derived from defensive stats, which can obviously be hard to value but I’m still a big believer that they must be considered and shouldn’t just be dismissed. Here’s the link:

    http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/does_speed_age_better/

  80. 80
    sansho1 Says:

    LOL at Jim Kaat’s examples of center fielders “nowadays” who are capable of making the same sorts of athletic catches that Willie Mays used to: Devon White…Kirby Puckett……

  81. 81
    sansho1 Says:

    To be fair, he also mentioned Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds, so the majority of his current examples are still alive.

  82. 82
    JoeCraigMcMurtry Says:

    The Nats can’t feel good about their chances tomorrow with Detwiler on the mound. According to a story on ESPN the (anonymous) finger pointing has already started.

  83. 83
    krussell Says:

    Early exit by the Nats is gonna be pretty awesome to behold. Shutting down Strasburg will be debated for decades.

    Regardless of how well speedsters age I don’t want Bourn. He doesn’t get on base enough and has no power. Offense is more important than defense imho.

  84. 84
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    I really want the Nats to beat the Cardinals, because the Nats are a great story and I hate the f’in Cardinals, but it’s out of my hands. My heart’s gone out of the postseason.

    I think offense and defense are of equal importance, in that a run scored is of equal importance to a run prevented. But offense is easier to measure, and offensive measures are more reliable. So it may be easier to achieve certainty of the offensive product.

    But I think that we should try to get whatever gives us the most bang for our buck — whether it’s an offensive win above replacement or a defensive win above replacement, I’d see which the market seems to be overvaluing this offseason and try to get a bargain by going in the opposite direction.

    After all, we got Bourn for a significant bargain over the price of Hunter Pence, despite the fact that Bourn is, if anything, a better player than Pence thanks to his superb defense.

  85. 85
    spike Says:

    @83, Bourn was 5th in wOBA and wRC among NL CF. McCutcheon and Harper aren’t available, Pagan is, and Fowler might be. Fowler will cost real players. Pagan is an FA, but won’t be free, and might cost a draft pick as well. Fowler and Pagan both are a far worse defensively than Bourn than they are better than him offensively, and both have a significant opportunity cost associated with them, and have a defensive liability. I am not sure how else you could improve CF offense, and this will only be a marginal improvemnt.

    Bourn is a pretty good offensive CF and a very good defensive one. That is going to be hard to replace, and it’s certainly worth exploring keeping him if at all possible.

  86. 86
    PaulV Says:

    Broun was in walk year, does that matter to this year’s results.

  87. 87
    csg Says:

    Anyone see this?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/nolan-ryan-publicly-questions-josh-hamilton-attempt-quit-184418772–mlb.html

  88. 88
    PaulV Says:

    I though Strasburg was wearing down toward the end of his season. Nats played from the beginning because they did not think they had a chance for postseason and wanted as many fannys in seats as possible. Maybe I just do not like Nats,

  89. 89
    PaulV Says:

    @87 Does that mean TX will not pay Hamilton all the money and may sign All The Money?

  90. 90
    Adam M Says:

    @85 Thank you. Everyone here seems to be taking it for granted that Bourn isn’t a good hitting center fielder, when in fact he’s above average. But let’s take it a step further. In the last three years–a sample where the defensive metrics are much more stable and accurate–his fWAR is just behind Evan Longoria, Albert Pujols, and Dustin Pedroia, and just ahead of Adrian Gonzalez, Chase Headley, and Ryan Zimmerman. Not to mention Ian Kinsler, Jose Reyes, Prince Fielder, and many others. My point is that he is a great baseball player who brings enormous value to a team. Unless you replace him with another good-to-very good player (whatever the position), you’re going to take a big hit.

    It wasn’t a mystery why a below-average hitting team with only decent pitching was able to win 94 games. The defense was the reason, and Bourn plays the third most important defensive position on the field.

  91. 91
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    Yeah, I think TX and Hamilton are headed for a divorce. I don’t want Hamilton, though, unless the price is extremely reasonable. I see him as sort of like Chipper five years ago: great hitter but bad defense and a very fragile body. The demons are sort of a side issue. I’d love to take a look at Hamilton to fill the left field hole, but I wouldn’t want him for more than 3 years, $40 million, and maybe not even that.

  92. 92
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    No question that Bourn’s defense has been sensational thus far in his career. But he’s turning 30, and few elite defenders remain elite after they turn 30. That’s why I’m so wary about a long term defense-predicated deal with him. I believe that he can certainly remain pretty good, especially if he keeps his walk rate up. But obviously the strikeout rate is a concern, because contact rate is another thing to worry about as players get older. (See: Uggla, Dan.)

  93. 93
    sansho1 Says:

    The strikeouts are the main concern with Bourn, I agree, because that’s what’s different from the typical speed-guy-aging-well profile. At least in Bourn’s case (unlike Uggla’s), he has a choice available to him that might allow him to retain some extra value — he can cut down on his swing and scratch out more hustle singles on balls in play.

  94. 94
    Dan Says:

    Not watching the postseason either, but really want the Cardinals to lose before they reach the World Series. They don’t deserve to be in long.

    Looks like the Nationals choke as well as the Braves in the playoffs.

  95. 95
    kc Says:

    @91 3/40m? I hope you are not talking about what he will actually get. I am sure we all know he will get way more than that.

  96. 96
    kc Says:

    Bourn is a fine player, but I would be reluctant to give him even the 3/40m contract mentioned by AAR above…

  97. 97
    Scump Says:

    I really dislike that stupid whistle thing that plays in Yankee Stadium after a visitor strikes out.

  98. 98
    krussell Says:

    Bourn’s second half production was barely replacement level. No thanks on the big contract. I’m not saying he sucks or anything, I just don’t want to spend the money that way. We’ll need more pitching, and we need power badly. I’m not sure that power will be available – but if it is it won’t be cheap.

  99. 99
    spike Says:

    I’m not sure I disagree, but whom did you have in mind for CF, and what do you think it will cost?

  100. 100
    krussell Says:

    I would pretty much anyone in CF if it meant we’d get a heavy hitting LF or 3B.

  101. 101
    c. shorter Says:

    Still waiting for Michael Bourn’s dad to weigh in.

  102. 102
    Dan Says:

    It’s funny how quickly Bourn went from “all the money” to “offering him arbitration wouldn’t be the worst thing.”

  103. 103
    krussell Says:

    Take this year’s team and subtract Chipper and put McCann in as a huge question mark — that doesn’t really improve an offense that was already below league average in a lot of categories. Even with Bourn playing great it’s not a terrifying lineup. I feel like we need a big acquisition somewhere…so “all the money” would go to LF or 3B or best player available, and I’m hoping that player is better than Bourn. If we can’t find such a player then we’re in for a long season I think.

  104. 104
    spike Says:

    @103, don’t you also have to subtract Bourn in your hypothetical, as an above average hitting CF? You have to replace that too, even if your new LF/3B replaces Chipper’s contributions. A player that can give you Chipper’s output (2.6 oWAR), PLUS the delta between Bourn (3.2) and his replacement would have to be David Wright (5.9) or better.

  105. 105
    krussell Says:

    Surely we can find a good fielding CF that will hit a bit above replacement level…and not pay him all that much. That was second-half Bourn pretty much. And yes we’ll need to sign a playing on the level of David Wright or better. Mabye Chase Headley is such a player? I dunno. I like going after the younger guys rather than paying up for reputation and past achievements. It might be impossible to sign anyone like that. I really have no idea what’s possible.

    You could probably argue that we could stand pat and just hope that Heyward and Freeman progress and Uggla remembers how to play and McCann comes back with a vengeance after getting healthy. We just need to be better somehow offensively…so keeping Bourn at the expense of adding another big piece might not be all that smart. Keeping him because there’s no other pieces out there is probably fine.

  106. 106
    JoeCraigMcMurtry Says:

    I just read DOB’s predictably stupid column about what he would do if he were GM (yeah, I know, nobody’s fault but my own). It includes brilliant nuggets like keeping Hanson as the fifth starter. I don’t recommend reading it.

    But the fact that he (like most of us) simply assumes that we won’t spend money on pitching got me thinking, because, assuming that we can trade for a decent reasonably-priced option at one of 3B, LF or CF, I suspect that the difference between a Zach Greinke or James Shields and Tommy Hanson (about +4 WAR) is equal to more wins than the difference between an expensive free agent (Swisher, Bourn, Upton etc.) and whoever we scrounge up to fill that last hole at 3B, LF or CF.

    I actually think we can fill LF pretty easily. For example, the Indians have made it clear they are willing to unload Shin-Soo Choo, and it probably won’t even take a great package to get him. He’s arbitration eligible for the last time and is looking at 7 million or so. A fair amount of money for a 2.6 WAR, .815 OPS player. But while the guy cannot hit lefthanders to save his life (.605 OPS) he mashes righthanders (.925 OPS). The dude is a perfect one-year option, especially if you have a solid righthanded power hitter to spell him against lefties (Evan Gattis?).

    Add to that someone like that a Dexter Fowler (3.5 million) or Peter Bourjos and you are still left with plenty of money to upgrade the rotation. With a little creativity we could even make room to sign Zach Greinke to something like 5/110, slightly backloaded. With Maholm, Choo, BMac, O’Flaherty and Hudson all coming off the books the following year, Greinke wouldn’t necessarily hamstring us to where we couldn’t also afford to lock up Medlen, Heyward and Freeman.

  107. 107
    Maverickjb Says:

    @96 AAR was referring to Josh Hamilton for 3/40m I believe . Although neither will take that offer because everyone wants 6+ years but I Strongly disagree with signing anyone for big money beyond age 35 . It’s not the NBA where some team will take an expiring contract . See A-Rod

  108. 108
    Smitty Says:

    Maybe we could get ARod. Hitting for him last night was classic.

  109. 109
    Bethany Says:

    So you guys think we’re going to get a quality LF, CF AND another starter? Wow.

    I love how it’s been pointed out multiple times that speed guys age well, and no one here wants to believe it.

  110. 110
    Dusty Says:

    That’s funny Smitty I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how much of his contract the Yanks would pay to unload ARod.

  111. 111
    cliff Says:

    Good to see the roster talk.

    One of my issues is payroll.

    Right now, it seems like the “every club national TV contracts” will increase by about 30 million (maybe 40) in 2014. That only leaves 1 year in between.

    This creates a place where the corporate owner is at a disadvantage to the “rich guys with desire for rings.” Even though they want to make money, they are more oriented to long term franchise value and the perks of ownership, not “income return on investment.”

    I am scared that the per WAR value for FA’s is going to skyrocket, this year. If I were an agent, I would assume that until I knew better. Then, commensurate with that, the trade value of cheap contracts goes up.

    Just a warning. If Liberty doesn’t let McGuirk and Wren act “like it’s 2014″, this will probably be an excruciating offseason.

  112. 112
    JoeCraigMcMurtry Says:

    Cliff, that is an interesting point.

    I wonder if the money influx isn’t already largely priced in–teams have been long-term planning with a national TV revenue bump in mind–and there are still teams looking at trimming payroll rather than adding, and quite a few have already announced that they will raise their payroll any further.

    109-Nowhere did I (or anyone else) suggest that I think we will go after a quality starter. But with close to 30 million to spend (after filling out the rest of the roster) and a ton of tradeable prospects there is no reason why we couldn’t get a quality LF, CF and SP (if in fact you consider Peter Bourjos “quality”). We can’t do it by signing any of the “quality” OF free agents, not even Angel Pagan, who is going to get at least 4/50. But we can do it by trading for a one-year stop gap in LF like Choo, and an affordable centerfielder.

  113. 113
    Alex Remington (Another Alex R.) Says:

    New thread.

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